+- The South Pacific (https://tspforums.xyz)
+-- Forum: Hall of Historical Records (https://tspforums.xyz/forum-8.html)
+--- Forum: Archives (https://tspforums.xyz/forum-141.html)
+---- Forum: Fudgetopia Hall of Government (https://tspforums.xyz/forum-12.html)
+----- Forum: Assembly of the South Pacific (https://tspforums.xyz/forum-91.html)
+----- Thread: CSS Recall of Sam111 (/thread-3809.html)
RE: CSS Recall of Sam111 - Kris Kringle - 03-07-2016
You would head to the Operations Centre and read the pinned thread titled Forum Moderation and Administration Policy or open a thread there inquiring about the moderation and review process.
If you read my posts, I never said I should be absolved of anything. In fact, I keep saying over and over again that all issues need to be addressed. What happens is many people are using the issue of admin misconduct to establish the false notion that it was a direct cause of the coup, which carries the implication that I (and others) are somehow responsible for the Cabinet couping.
I dispute that. I completely accept that the Cabinet had a right to feel uncomfortable and to seek appropriate answers to its concerns. But the Cabinet consisted of very experienced individuals, who were well aware of how the moderation process works. They did know who is the Head Admin and never tried to approach him about their issues. That means they went straight to switching forums and couping the region, without first trying to work the issue with us.
That is my problem with this whole situation. It was not my fault that the Cabinet couped, because nobody forced the Cabinet to coup. What they should have done is try to solve the problem with Forum Administration or start a discussion in the Assembly. That would have been appropriate and completely within the boundaries of the law. To say that I am responsible for the coup implies that couping was a valid choice, and it was not.
If you read my posts, I never said I should be absolved of anything. In fact, I keep saying over and over again that all issues need to be addressed. What happens is many people are using the issue of admin misconduct to establish the false notion that it was a direct cause of the coup, which carries the implication that I (and others) are somehow responsible for the Cabinet couping.
I dispute that. I completely accept that the Cabinet had a right to feel uncomfortable and to seek appropriate answers to its concerns. But the Cabinet consisted of very experienced individuals, who were well aware of how the moderation process works. They did know who is the Head Admin and never tried to approach him about their issues. That means they went straight to switching forums and couping the region, without first trying to work the issue with us.
That is my problem with this whole situation. It was not my fault that the Cabinet couped, because nobody forced the Cabinet to coup. What they should have done is try to solve the problem with Forum Administration or start a discussion in the Assembly. That would have been appropriate and completely within the boundaries of the law. To say that I am responsible for the coup implies that couping was a valid choice, and it was not.
RE: CSS Recall of Sam111 - Belschaft - 03-07-2016
Have you considered, possibly, that the Cabinet might have felt that doing any of that might have been pointless, due to the numerous past instances where it had proven so?
RE: CSS Recall of Sam111 - fmastr - 03-07-2016
(03-07-2016, 02:32 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote:To say that I am responsible for the coup implies that couping was a valid choice, and it was not.
I don't recall anyone saying that. the responsibility for the coup is clearly on the cabinet.
What I've implied and will now say more clearly is that your actions certainly lead to the escalation of discourse in this region. evidently changes were made to address previous conduct but never announced publicly. not certain what group or body made those changes.
RE: CSS Recall of Sam111 - The Serres Republic - 03-07-2016
Thank you for posting in this thread Sam
RE: CSS Recall of Sam111 - fmastr - 03-07-2016
(03-07-2016, 02:32 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote:You would head to the Operations Centre and read the pinned thread titled Forum Moderation and Administration Policy or open a thread there inquiring about the moderation and review process.
the process you described is not detailed or even vaguely referenced in these policies in any way - nor is there any reference to a "Head Administrator". is that the same as a Root Admin (which is referenced - there are 2)?
CSS Recall of Sam111 - sandaoguo - 03-07-2016
(03-07-2016, 02:41 PM)Belschaft Wrote: Have you considered, possibly, that the Cabinet might have felt that doing any of that might have been pointless, due to the numerous past instances where it had proven so?
What numerous past instances? Since we created these forums, there's been an admin in every Cabinet term. Hileville's Cabinet never talked to any admins about any problems.
For what it's worth, I support the motion and I do believe we should keep voting until Sam either resigns or is recalled. Failed votes in the Assembly won't change the underlying factor that the CSS is dysfunctional while a couper remains a member. If it takes vote after vote for that point to be made, then so be it. It's ridiculous that the CSS can't remove its own members anyways.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RE: CSS Recall of Sam111 - The Serres Republic - 03-07-2016
I believe that my statement is being grossly misinterpreted and used as a spring board to brew toxicity. Allow me to simplify:
1: The assembly should, in my opinion, try and recognize the betrayal that the admin team went through when cabinet coup'd the region, or began the political crisis, whichever you prefer. It is unfair to that side of the equation to constantly demand they see Cabinets side of things while simultaneously ignoring their plight. It has been said a million times before, both sides are to blame for this event and we need to stop dumping additional blame on top of either of the sides. Who was at fault does not matter here, this is the issue regarding Sam's recall from css, if you want a thread dedicated to to who was right and who was wrong, make one. Call it 'Bickering: who's right in all this?'
2: I, despite Sam's statement (thank you so much for making on San like thank you thank you than you) still believe that his membership on css will create a toxic environment that will be detrimental to css's efficiency and therefor the security of our region. In my mind we have three options a. Remove Sam and elect another member b: remove both Kris and GR and elect two other members c. Completely absolve the CSS and elect a new team capable of cooperation. However I lean towards option a due to the instability of tsp at this current moment, for it will leave our few team as stable as possible at this current moment while we find a replacement.
3: I further believe that we should not be derailing this topic for petty quarrels.
This is not a defeated party requesting a reopened vote, this is not an attack on Sam, nor is it some form of abuse either. The fact is that our CSS contains a level of toxicity that is not conducive to an efficient team that can effectively protect our region. In light of instability it is most viable to remove Sam and search for another member. I personally believe complete recall and rebuilding of the CSS would be my more preferred choice but tsp cannot afford it at this time therefor we must reach a temporary solution to solve this issue. I would also like to point out that I original did not vote on this because I was initially unsure which of my three options I supported. Now I am sure and I believe that it is something that must happen. Finally, Sam111 this is not an attack, I personally believe that in a normal situation you would and are fully capable of being an excellent CSS member, however due to hostilities that are held onto between yourself and the other members I personally think it impossible.
To summarize, I believe that toxicity between Sam and GR/Kris is creating an inefficient CSS, and while I would prefer to see the entire CSS recalled and new members installed, our region cannot afford that so in order to prevent our CSS from being a threat to our region I believe that we should: a. remove Sam and find another member or; b. remove GR and Kris and find two more members. I lean towards a because it gives us more CSS members to have right now while we search for a replacement, which decreases instability while we look.
RE: CSS Recall of Sam111 - Belschaft - 03-07-2016
The fact that Glen and Kris don't want to work with Sam is not a good reason to remove Sam from the CSS. The fact that we need to try and see things from their point of view doesn't mean that we also need to accept their opinions as being correct, and in this case the Assembly didn't. That people are demanding a new recall vote is ridiculous and nothing short than the actions of a child, who can't accept that they didn't get their own way.
RE: CSS Recall of Sam111 - The Serres Republic - 03-07-2016
(03-07-2016, 04:09 PM)Belschaft Wrote: The fact that Glen and Kris don't want to work with Sam is not a good reason to remove Sam from the CSS. The fact that we need to try and see things from their point of view doesn't mean that we also need to accept their opinions as being correct, and in this case the Assembly didn't. That people are demanding a new recall vote is ridiculous and nothing short than the actions of a child, who can't accept that they didn't get their own way.
The fact of the matter remains that we have a dis functional CSS, I would love to hear a suggestion that solves this other then the removal of one the parties, or the rebuilding of the Entire CSS, if we lived in a perfect world then maybe the two sides would be able to act like adults and work together despite the personal grievances that exist, but that is clearly not the case. Therefor something needs to be done, and while I don't like it, the removal of Sam is the safest way, for our region, to proceed.
RE: CSS Recall of Sam111 - Belschaft - 03-07-2016
(03-07-2016, 04:15 PM)The Serres Republic Wrote:(03-07-2016, 04:09 PM)Belschaft Wrote: The fact that Glen and Kris don't want to work with Sam is not a good reason to remove Sam from the CSS. The fact that we need to try and see things from their point of view doesn't mean that we also need to accept their opinions as being correct, and in this case the Assembly didn't. That people are demanding a new recall vote is ridiculous and nothing short than the actions of a child, who can't accept that they didn't get their own way.
The fact of the matter remains that we have a dis functional CSS, I would love to hear a suggestion that solves this other then the removal of one the parties, or the rebuilding of the Entire CSS, if we lived in a perfect world then maybe the two sides would be able to act like adults and work together despite the personal grievances that exist, but that is clearly not the case. Therefor something needs to be done, and while I don't like it, the removal of Sam is the safest way, for our region, to proceed.
Having been a CSS member, and knowing what it involves, there is absolutely no reason why anyone needs to go. The CSS does not handle anything that is of a nature where Glen and Kris shouldn't be able to work with Sam; they don't want to, but that isn't a good enough reason. TSP cannot be organised based upon what they want.