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+----- Thread: CSS Recall of Sam111 (/thread-3809.html)
CSS Recall of Sam111 - ProfessorHenn - 03-04-2016
If the Delegate does not restore his Officer status, what will occur then?
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RE: CSS Recall of Sam111 - Wolf - 03-04-2016
(03-04-2016, 01:40 AM)Cathalea Wrote: If the Delegate does not restore his Officer status, what will occur then?
Nothing, other than the pointless obstruction of a Committee for State Security member's ability to fulfill their duty to the region.
Of course, if we're not going to allow all CSS members to have the powers that inherently come with the job, then there isn't much reason to have a Committee for State Security, now is there?
RE: CSS Recall of Sam111 - Kris Kringle - 03-04-2016
I can assure you that there is more to working at the Committee for State Security than having border control powers. In fact, most of our job does not involve using those powers at all.
CSS Recall of Sam111 - ProfessorHenn - 03-04-2016
'Pointless obstruction' is a bit much. The last time he had Border Control powers, he banjected his fellow CSS members. Not having Border Control for him is less 'pointless obstruction' and more 'nuisance'.
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RE: CSS Recall of Sam111 - Wolf - 03-04-2016
(03-04-2016, 01:47 AM)Kris Kringle Wrote: I can assure you that there is more to working at the Committee for State Security than having border control powers. In fact, most of our job does not involve using those powers at all.
I'm well aware of that. However, Kris, you're dodging the fact that every other CSS member has this ability and it explicitly is one of the powers granted to the CSS by the Regional Officers Act.
Denying Sam the same status as the rest of the Committee for State Security essentially makes him a half-member. It's basically a way for the CSS to ignore the will of the Assembly and treat Sam like he was recalled, even though he wasn't.
(03-04-2016, 01:50 AM)Cathalea Wrote: 'Pointless obstruction' is a bit much. The last time he had Border Control powers, he banjected his fellow CSS members. Not having Border Control for him is less 'pointless obstruction' and more 'nuisance'.
And for this Sam was put up for Recall, and it failed.
Again, if the Cabinet and the CSS can pick and choose which CSS members they personally want to give favors to and which they don't, over the clear will of the Assembly, what's the point of having a CSS at all?
Is this an organization created to protect the region, backed by the collective faith of the Assembly, or is this a good old boys club that can ignore the Assembly whenever they fell like?
RE: CSS Recall of Sam111 - Resentine - 03-04-2016
How about we wait until the Delegate is on before we start accusing him of denying someone powers, eh?
RE: CSS Recall of Sam111 - Wolf - 03-04-2016
(03-04-2016, 01:55 AM)Resentine Wrote: How about we wait until the Delegate is on before we start accusing him of denying someone powers, eh?
You misunderstand. This is not an accusation, it's merely a fact. Sam doesn't have those powers anymore Tsu removed them, and at the time it was the correct decision to make, no fault there. The Crisis had just happened and Sam's position on the CSS was put into question.
But now that the recall has failed, the question becomes "Should these powers be restored?"
RE: CSS Recall of Sam111 - Resentine - 03-04-2016
(03-04-2016, 01:59 AM)Wolf Wrote:(03-04-2016, 01:55 AM)Resentine Wrote: How about we wait until the Delegate is on before we start accusing him of denying someone powers, eh?
You misunderstand. This is not an accusation, it's merely a fact. Sam doesn't have those powers anymore Tsu removed them, and at the time is was the correct decision to make, no fault there. The Crisis had just happened and Sam's position on the CSS was put into question.
But now that the recall has failed, the question becomes "Should these powers be restored?"
They should. And they will. I'm just saying not everybody's a robot like you and me and can be on 24/7. Give him time to wake up and do it, instead of wasting time discussing it here.
RE: CSS Recall of Sam111 - Kris Kringle - 03-04-2016
(03-04-2016, 01:52 AM)Wolf Wrote: I'm well aware of that. However, Kris, you're dodging the fact that every other CSS member has this ability and it explicitly is one of the powers granted to the CSS by the Regional Officers Act.
Denying Sam the same status as the rest of the Committee for State Security essentially makes him a half-member. It's basically a way for the CSS to ignore the will of the Assembly and treat Sam like he was recalled, even though he wasn't,
Considering the fact that SJS Republic used his border control power to eject fellow CSS members, as one of the main participants in the Cabinet Coup, I think the Delegate made a prudent decision, in accordance with Clause 4.3 of the Regional Officers Act, to deny him such power.
You will notice that SJS Republic still has the dark red CSS mask, even though in my book he has no business as a member of the institution tasked with protecting the region from coups, having participated in a coup himself. It was not my place to deny him access to the CSS private area, and that remains the case even now.
I will also point out that the CSS cannot be faulted for the lack of border control power. This is a decision made by the Cabinet, as permitted by the law. We as a Committee did not make that call.
And no. As far as I am concerned, SJS Republic should not have his border control power restored. It has been over a month since he used that very power to coup the region, and I think the region is very badly served if it ignored that fact. It is time we stopped treating the couple who led this coup as tragic victims, when they were well aware of their actions. If SJS Republic wants us to welcome him back to this region, he should deserve it. He hasn't done anything to thst end thus far.
You will notice that SJS Republic still has the dark red CSS mask, even though in my book he has no business as a member of the institution tasked with protecting the region from coups, having participated in a coup himself. It was not my place to deny him access to the CSS private area, and that remains the case even now.
I will also point out that the CSS cannot be faulted for the lack of border control power. This is a decision made by the Cabinet, as permitted by the law. We as a Committee did not make that call.
And no. As far as I am concerned, SJS Republic should not have his border control power restored. It has been over a month since he used that very power to coup the region, and I think the region is very badly served if it ignored that fact. It is time we stopped treating the couple who led this coup as tragic victims, when they were well aware of their actions. If SJS Republic wants us to welcome him back to this region, he should deserve it. He hasn't done anything to thst end thus far.
RE: CSS Recall of Sam111 - Wolf - 03-04-2016
(03-04-2016, 02:05 AM)Kris Kringle Wrote: Considering the fact that SJS Republic used his border control power to eject fellow CSS members, as one of the main participants in the Cabinet Coup, I think the Delegate made a prudent decision, in accordance with Clause 4.3 of the Regional Officers Act, to deny him such power.
And I completely agree with that call at the time. No one is disputing that radical actions needed to be taken by Tsu who was acting not only as Delegate but as the entire Cabinet and as a CSS member. Extraordinary actions were needed for extraordinary circumstances.
However, the situation has changed since then. Farengeto, a member of the CSS and part of the Cabinet, put Sam up for recall. The Assembly then rejected the recall attempt, which puts a new spin on things, especially now that the situation has more or less normalized.
But I have to side with Resentine on this one and say we should wait for the Delegate to come on and give their input on the matter.