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+----- Thread: Political Parties: A Discussion (/thread-4836.html)
Political Parties: A Discussion - Tsunamy - 02-06-2017
I'm sure some people are expecting this — and Roavin even attempted to head this off — but I think we need to have an open, honest and frank discussion about political parties.
I endorsed our current setup in the hopes that it would spur activity. And, in doing so, was willing to risk the ideas of block votes and "endorsements" (however unsightly I find them) for the increased activity.
However, instead we find ourselves without more activity — of course five positions up for election, two are uncontested and one is only nominally contested. In short, this isn't helping activity.
Second, we've now entered a situation where (a) we're arguing that membership in political parties should not be seen as a potential conflict of interest and (b) we're finding incredibly unsightly endorsement swapping. While, admittedly, some take this process more seriously than others, the fact remains that in a region with such a small active citizenship, this can easily cross the line into electioneering.
What I ask then, is, do the positives of the current party system outweigh the negatives?
I ask that we have an open and frank discussion about this. I'm not laying the blame on anyone, but actually asking this question. It's important to consider how we maintain activity and at what costs. Right now, I'm not sure we're doing either.
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - Omega - 02-06-2017
MoRA is uncontested because, in my opinion, Seraph has done a terrific job and it would be foolish to oppose him. MoMA is uncontested because we have a general running for it, a general who received that promotion with an overwhelming majority in favor. PM is uncontested because many people don't want to face DM who has done an excellent job.
I do have to ask though Tsu, what would parties increasing activity look like exactly?
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - Tsunamy - 02-06-2017
(02-06-2017, 06:01 PM)Omega Wrote: MoRA is uncontested because, in my opinion, Seraph has done a terrific job and it would be foolish to oppose him. MoMA is uncontested because we have a general running for it, a general who received that promotion with an overwhelming majority in favor. PM is uncontested because many people don't want to face DM who has done an excellent job.
I do have to ask though Tsu, what would parties increasing activity look like exactly?
It would look like more newcomers getting involved and new ideas being brought into the region.
Do we think that's the case?
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - Omega - 02-06-2017
That is not currently happening. I don't know if you can solely point to parties for that but it is not happening.
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - Escade - 02-06-2017
(02-06-2017, 06:04 PM)Tsunamy Wrote:(02-06-2017, 06:01 PM)Omega Wrote: MoRA is uncontested because, in my opinion, Seraph has done a terrific job and it would be foolish to oppose him. MoMA is uncontested because we have a general running for it, a general who received that promotion with an overwhelming majority in favor. PM is uncontested because many people don't want to face DM who has done an excellent job.
I do have to ask though Tsu, what would parties increasing activity look like exactly?
It would look like more newcomers getting involved and new ideas being brought into the region.
Do we think that's the case?
MoRA is uncontested because Seraph\Erinor has transformed the agency. I mean I started MoRA back in the day as something that did more regional things. Seraph has taken it to a professional level that actually makes me so gleeful and just happy. He also is the first player who can do all things well (I for example was not strong on the RP front).
If we want to compare things, let's look at this election versus the last few years in terms of campaigns\actual enactment of campaigns and activity levels. We're far better organized and "professional" now and I hope we can utilize the talents of people to keep doing that.
We may also want to bring back some of the titles that we used to have that were not cabinet but still significant like Official Cartographer, and we have a professional artist, Imki, who can give us a visually cohesive theme\culture if we pursue it.
Political Parties: A Discussion - sandaoguo - 02-06-2017
Political parties have nothing to do with the state of TSP's activities, and I'm not sure anybody has ever argued otherwise before. It's not our job to bring in new players. It's the Delegate's and the Cabinet's. Parties are private organizations.
Whether naysayers like it or not, friends will band together to get things done. When they make that a more formal organization, it's called a political party. We can't ban them and remain a democracy. Before parties, people made all the same claims as they do now: if you're so-and-so's friend, you have a COI; if you're talking behind the scenes about elections and coming up with strategies, you're a secretive cabal engaged in corrupt dealings. The tirade Belschaft went on this morning had happened before and it'll happen again. Today the accusations are leveled against APC/TIL. Two years ago, it was #LampshadeBar.
Those who don't benefit from these groups of friends, or find themselves in opposition to them, cry corruption. It's the same old story of so many past elections. The only difference is that you can name the boogeyman.
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RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - Belschaft - 02-06-2017
That's a rather galling defence of political corruption and electioneering. Whilst it may not be possible to entirely prevent such, I hardly thing we should be actively encouraging it.
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - Tsunamy - 02-06-2017
(02-06-2017, 06:23 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: Political parties have nothing to do with the state of TSP's activities, and I'm not sure anybody has ever argued otherwise before.
Whether naysayers like it or not, friends will band together to get things done. When they make that a more formal organization, it's called a political party. We can't ban them and remain a democracy. Before parties, people made all the same claims as they do now: if you're so-and-so's friend, you have a COI; if you're talking behind the scenes about elections and coming up with strategies, you're a secretive cabal engaged in corrupt dealings. The tirade Belschaft went on this morning had happened before and it'll happen again. Today the accusations are leveled against APC/TIL. Two years ago, it was #LampshadeBar.
Those who don't benefit from these groups of friends, or find themselves in opposition to them, cry corruption. It's the same old story of so many past elections. The only difference is that you can name the boogeyman.
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As the person who initially proposed the current setup, whether I stated it or not, the idea was to hopefully increase activity. (This was also the idea by asking TIL to move back to our forums from the secretive offsite forums that had been set up.) I wouldn't have proposed the current structure otherwise.
I'm also not accepting your cynicism here. Or even your unrepentant attitude, to be frank. I'm trying to keep this civil, but your candidate pulled out because he didn't like the way the parties were going along here. As such, I think you need to do some soul searching if you're happy being part of a "secretive cabal engaged in corrupt dealings" and think that should be an everyday occurrence in this region.
Political Parties: A Discussion - sandaoguo - 02-06-2017
(02-06-2017, 06:33 PM)Belschaft Wrote: That's a rather galling defence of political corruption and electioneering. Whilst it may not be possible to entirely prevent such, I hardly thing we should be actively encouraging it.
You can no more ban political parties from strategizing in elections than you can ban individuals doing it. I'm tired of seeing "political parties" bandied about like some foreign object.
APC and TIL are made up of TSPers who are just as legitimate as any other TSPer not in a party. Demonizing just under half of the active forum community isn't acceptable. It's just plain wrong. We come together so our voices have power in unity. That some of you guys go so far as to say Griffin, Omega, Roavin, Seraph, myself, etc., are basically dangers to democracy is ridiculous. It's beyond absurd.
There have been plenty of real threats to our democracy. APC and TIL, and the people who make up these parties, have not only never been one of those threats, most of us have actively defended TSP against them.
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RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - Omega - 02-06-2017
In every election until this one, the APC has endorsed a candidate from their party or a candidate chosen through a primary. And the MoFA thing has fallen through so we will be holding a primary for that one as well. This is a group of people who agree on things coming together to try to make the region better. The APC is not a secret cabal. The APC does almost everything important in public. The APC is not trying to rig the region.