politic nakari (11:18 PM)
i'm looking through to find the 2017 gen people, but most of the promiment ones were only re-applying in 2017 so i don't think they count.. we had yuno, me, bzern, volaworand, malaysian singapura, tim, and aav whitehall. :stuck_out_tongue: so a bit of a mixed bag…

Kringle (11:18 PM)
Tim is most definitely not 2017.

MadJack (11:19 PM)
Tim might predate me in gameplay - he's 2011/12 at the latest

politic nakari (11:19 PM)
ah, you're right - late 2016 he applied in tsp

Kringle (11:19 PM)
I think 2010?

MadJack (11:19 PM)
2010 sounds about right

Kringle (11:20 PM)
I remember Tim resigning from citizenship around 2014, so his time in TSP is pre-Cabinet Coup.

politic nakari (11:20 PM)
http://tspforums.xyz/thread-4476-post-137694.html#pid137694
well, according to tim, at least :stuck_out_tongue:

MadJack (11:21 PM)
it all started so promisingly

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:23 PM)
...yeah.

hexerei und zauberei (11:24 PM)
Gosh, it really appears I missed a lot during my hiatus
Both in terms of NS and TSP. Only starting to look back at some of the threads. yikes

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:25 PM)
The Timscade period was .... yeeeeaaaaah.

politic nakari (11:27 PM)
would be interesting to divide tsp history into periods like that

hexerei und zauberei (11:27 PM)
that’s... agh. I caught wind of a lot but I don’t recall ever catching that

Smh ended up defender again (11:28 PM)
I am still not aware what happens.
Only that the ensuing shitshow prompted TEP to pause any projects with TSP.

politic nakari (11:29 PM)
i'd place the start of timscade period in maybe early 2018, with the spp incident

Smh ended up defender again (11:29 PM)
Just not to get splatters from it

politic nakari (11:29 PM)
with maybe a political party era coming before that

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:29 PM)
TL;DR: I was frustrated with tim and Escade as Cabinet ministers and proposed to recall the entire Cabinet. They took it personally and decided to flame and bait and generally toxify the region for a few months before finally they got an admin ban because TSP was literally falling apart

Kringle (11:30 PM)
To be fair, they were incredibly toxic way before the MoNC.

politic nakari (11:31 PM)
there had already been tensions building for a while, particularly between escade and tim vs. me, seraph and somyrion

Smh ended up defender again (11:31 PM)
I am still bamboozled with Escade. It has been my impression that she did many good things as MORA.

politic nakari (11:31 PM)
she did.

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:31 PM)
she did!
That's the ridiculous thing

politic nakari (11:31 PM)
they just were undercut slightly >_>

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:31 PM)
She did a lot of good but apparently in her eyes if you say anything bad about anything, it means that you think the whole thing is bad.

Smh ended up defender again (11:32 PM)
Yikes

politic nakari (11:33 PM)
the lotr festival, which came near the end - everything was going well, but a couple people left during the pings, so i mentioned that maybe we should have a different ping system. escade called me whiny, petty, said i hadn't contributed anything to the festival (i'd held 4 quizzes and spent hours on it), then didn't give me credit for any work on the festival. :stuck_out_tongue:

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:33 PM)
But yeah, tensions had been buidling for a while, the MoNC end of may brought it out into the open, and in august they got an admin ban because, basically, there was absolutely no other option available that would have left any kind of TSP.

Smh ended up defender again (11:33 PM)
Oh yeah that was me >.>

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:33 PM)
They went after anybody and everybody, digging up anything, making it personal at every turn.

Smh ended up defender again (11:33 PM)
the pings were excessive

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:33 PM)
Well, Escade particularly.
Tim was just being Tim for the most part

Smh ended up defender again (11:34 PM)
Tim is not surprising xP

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:34 PM)
Though even Tim went overboard quite a few times.

politic nakari (11:34 PM)
tim took the monc personally

Smh ended up defender again (11:34 PM)
Even though I liked him. Mostly because he shat on EPSA and saw who did the footwork >.>

politic nakari (11:35 PM)
the complaint about him in the monc wasn't even that he was toxic, it was that he wasn't doing anything

Smh ended up defender again (11:35 PM)
monc?

politic nakari (11:35 PM)
motion of no confidence

Smh ended up defender again (11:35 PM)
What was his position?

politic nakari (11:35 PM)
mofa

Smh ended up defender again (11:35 PM)
huh

Amerion (11:35 PM)
The MoNC was urgh.
Ugly. Ugly. Ugly.

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:39 PM)
I don't even know why Tim took it personally.
I figured he'd be like "dude don't even talk to me" for a week, then "hey asshole get into VC" to chase or something

Smh ended up defender again (11:40 PM)
Well monc is a big word isn't it?

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:40 PM)
I suspected and feared Escade would take it personally.
so I wasn't too surprised there.
Tim ... hurt.

Kringle (11:41 PM)
Perhaps Tim and Escade reinforced each other’s worst impulses?

Amerion (11:41 PM)
I mean, the timing seemed like an attack on his chances for election.

Smh ended up defender again (11:41 PM)
I mean did you give them the opportunity to resign?

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:41 PM)
No, I outright motioned to recall the entire Cabinet, myself included.
Amerion, yeah, that was an issue.

Amerion (11:42 PM)
Sunk them all politically. Or so we thought :stuck_out_tongue:

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:42 PM)
I was talking to Glen about it at the time. I was really conflicted.

MadJack (11:42 PM)
this is a side of the story I haven't heard before. Interesting.

Amerion (11:42 PM)
What is the other side?
Do tell. I have only ever heard Roavin's.

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:42 PM)
well, you watched it happen, Amerion, so ... :stuck_out_tongue:

Smh ended up defender again (11:43 PM)
Well I heard it mostly from Timscade because they were loud

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:43 PM)
but back on the election thing: I knew that I'd be accused of interfering with the election when I did it, but feared that not doing it would give a wrong impression of them for that election, and the two (particularly Escade) had become impossible to work with that last term.

Amerion (11:44 PM)
I was new, fresh off the ferry. This was a big conflict to waddle into.

MadJack (11:44 PM)
This is third hand - I don't think I've ever spoken with either Tim or Escade over this - but the other side of the story is that a lot of the toxicity came at Tim and Escade from uh... certain people as well as them dishing it out.

Kringle (11:44 PM)
Yeah...no.

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:44 PM)
Probably from Glen and myself.

MadJack (11:44 PM)
The impression many got at the time was that members of TSP admin were banning political opponents.

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:44 PM)
If that was the case, they could have just gotten banned much earlier.
The true story is that they were banned out of desperation

MadJack (11:45 PM)
shrugs

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:45 PM)
Because all other mechanisms we had either failed or weren't acted upon to try to reign in and keep the region together

Amerion (11:45 PM)
Did the conflict spill into the public channels?

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:45 PM)
Barely.
Most of it was leglounge.

Amerion (11:45 PM)
I recall it was open warfare in the lounge.

MadJack (11:46 PM)
I'd say the true story is probably somewhere inbetween, but that's because I learnt to my own cost that no one side is ever being 100% up and up in these sorts of things.

Amerion (11:46 PM)
My goodness, watching you all argue was wow.

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:46 PM)
You're probably right, MJ. I know I wasn't innocent.

Kringle (11:46 PM)
@MadJack: I’ve always thought that was a silly thing to believe because, if there’s one thing to know about South Pacifican culture, is that we’re extremely afraid of upsetting the status quo.
politic nakari (11:46 PM)
Tim and Escade certainly did create an alternative narrative that GP was eager to believe.

Amerion (11:46 PM)
I remember a lot of people stepped back after it. Just to recover

Kringle (11:46 PM)
We have to be pretty unbelievably desperate to get to the point where we ban someone.

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:47 PM)
Actually, you're certainly right, because that's how those things usually go
But what helped reinforce the belief in me that we did the right thing, even if we might have done it in a less than ideal way or gotten to it in a less than ideal way, is that the community basically said "oh thank fuck" instead of being pissed about it.

politic nakari (11:49 PM)
I’ve always suspected Tim took it so personally because of what I had to say about his behavior and treatment of me in the private MoFA channels. I was way more harsh than Roavin. If I had to wager, Tim thought he was on his way to making me “irrelevant” and pushing me out, and the MoNC ruined that.

Amerion (11:49 PM)
That's very true. A collective sigh of relief.

MadJack (11:49 PM)
Do you think apathy played a part in that, Roavin?
Like at a certain point did it become a 'i don't care how it ends, only that it does' sort of thing?

Roavin slips in ur PMs (11:50 PM)
GP did latch on to one specific South Pacifican that has a knack for being ...somewhat dramatic, and then portrayed that single individual's testimony as some sort of token for people being afraid to speak out now because of fear of admin. That's hogwash, though, and anybody that even remotely knows what TSP is like, knows that that can't be true because otherwise belschaft would have been banned 19829 times over :stuck_out_tongue:
MJ, that's a good question. Probably yes for those that aren't big assembly people. I know it certainly wasn't apathy for Naka/Somy/Seraph/Faren/more I could mention.

MadJack (11:51 PM)
nods

Kringle (11:53 PM)
It didn’t help that, at least with Escade, you couldn’t have an honest conversation about the issues, because she just wouldn’t believe you.
Or she’d build a completely different narrative when one pointed out how she was mistreating people.