(03-06-2016, 09:35 PM)Imperial Frost Federation Wrote: For good or ill, the attempt to remove Sam failed, but the facts are Hileville and his cabinet attempted a coup to reform the TSP. No amount of political posturing will change the fact that it was indeed a coup as well as a constitutional crisis. As I have stated before in the IRC during the coup, I would neither condemn nor support the ideas that led to the coup, but would make it clear that I disapprove of using the coup as a means to reform the TSP. That being said, I abstained from voting due to several factors.

1. While I have nothing against Farengeto and agreed with his ruling that the Hileville administration was wrong to attempt a forum change, his actions post coup have had the unfortunate effect of eroding trust within the TSP especially during the MoFA race.

2. the arguments for and against removing Sam were based on appeals to pathos rather than rational discussion

3. The arguments also shifted away from the topic at hand to whether or not the Constitutional Crisis was a coup or not. It was both.

4. I can not condemn a man in absentia

which brings me to my last part 5. that this appeared to be more of a witch hunt than a genuine attempt to remove someone who has broken the trust of the TSP, as the one who brought the accusation clearly had an axe to grind against Sam regardless of whether or not he was innocent simply because he cast his lot with the Transitional government.

Unfortunately Frost, it is not conducive to creating a productive CDs to include Sam as a member. And once again he is not being condemned. What you are asking of sand and kris is both wrong and impossible. Every member in the css has stated that they do not wish for Sam to be included as a member. I am asking us to step away from factual reasoning and consider emotional justice. Simply removing Sam from the Css is entirely different from witch hunting. If we were witch hunting we would be banjecting everyone that even considered hilevilles opinion as a valid one. The use of that term appears on the surface to be a shock and awe statement that was entirely unnecessary to include. In fact I guarantee it will be used in the majority to argue your points.

To address your reasoning:

1:I see not how Farengeto's actions would affect this debate, for its subject is the recall of sam111

2: I see no issue with arguments appealing to emotion when considering an emotional ordeal. Kris and sand have strong toxic feelings for Sam and that can only serve to create an environment that will jeopardize tsp security through a lack of workplace teamwork and productivity.


3: I already addressed this, I would emplore you to ignore posts regarding this particular arguement for it was unnecessary and semantically. Allowing it to affect your judgement on the greater point of this discussion, the recall of sam111, would be short sighted

4: you are not condemning him, you are ensuring that all parties suffer least in this complicated and heated situation. Condemning him would be a permanent ban from tsp, and nothing less.