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Legal Question: On the legality of Hileville and the Cabinet's actions of 21 January
#11

Amicus Brief

I’m not really a formal guy, so, I’m not going to be very formal; however, there are a few things you need to understand before you read this:

The investigation I performed, while searching for the legality of the Cabinet’s actions was part of it, it was not the primary part. What I was trying to do was to find the source of what caused all of this, and find out what really happened to cause such a massive and oversized dispute. Everything that is censored in the photos that I present are either personal information(EI, my name, etc), were asked to be kept private by my interviewees, or otherwise irrelevant information(Discussions about RPs, etc). Should alternate copies be requested, they can be obtained.

I started my investigation the night of the change. The change really came out of nowhere: no one said anything to anyone, and no one seemed to understand why all of this had happened. People were throwing insults in the RMB, and it seemed to be nothing more than Chaos. So, I decided to start with someone I could trust, someone who seemed to be as confused as I was: Tsu.

Tsu's conversation 1
We both were unclear on what was going on, but, Tsu mentioned that he spoke to Hile, so I followed the trail there, and I talked to Hileville about what happened.

So, after having interviewed Hile, I went back to Tsu, and we discussed our knowledge on the situation.

Tsu's conversation 2
We both compared notes about Hile’s statements, and asked ourselves this question: Why would GR want to coup over Kris’ Citizenship? I decided that in that I needed to talk to the other admins as well. So, I PM’d both GR and Kris on the old site, to see what they knew.

I asked GR about when the issue of Kris’ citizenship came up. Responded by saying that it came up in a PM conversation with Imki involving the removal of citizenships. He recalled that other than the PM conversation, that there was a lengthy debate on Discord, but, after that, nothing for two weeks, to either him or the other admins.  He later sent me a picture of the PM conversation, which can be seen in the thread “I did not try to coup…”(link to thread here). I also had a Discord conversation with him just to confirm his knowledge on the situation.

GR's conversation
I got to interview Kris in a private IRC chat room(name blocked in pictures because it’s private), where we discussed the issue of his citizenship. He recalled a CSS thread about it back on the old 10.mx forums, and both he a tsu posted there, but, he did not recall anything in regards to who posted what. I attempted to use some of the other evidence I had to see if he knew anything else about the issue of his citizenship, including the private discussion between Imki and GR, but, he had no idea anything was going on, much less anything in regards to his citizenship.

Kris's conversation
After our conversation, I had a short talk with Punchwood via PMs about the situation(He was made aware of my investigation via a TG exchange early in the site change), where he brought up a private discussion between him and Hileville about Kris’ citizenship, as Imki was not the only one to notice. He approached Hile about it but was told to wait until a more thorough citizenship check was done after the holidays. This led me to the conclusion that whatever really happened to cause this, if GR really did make any threat to coup TSP like Hile claimed, it was on the other side of the PM chain with Imki.

I decided that it would be good to talk to the Cabinet first.(Which I would like to somewhat apologize for, because I apparently came off as self-imposing and hostile.) I interviewed several members of the Cabinet, including Sopo, Scylla, Sam111, and Hileville(again)

Scylla's Conversation
Sam's conversation
Sopo's conversation
They all confirmed that they agreed with the forum change, and that it was done in secret in case of an attempted Admin coup, and their stories about the incidents seemed to line up with each other. I asked Sopo to check around the threads on the old site, and he confirmed that there were no apparent thread posts or discussions in regards to Kris’ citizenship in the Cabinet’s private sub-forums. I shared my conclusion with some of the Cabinet members, with Sam recalling GR saying something along the line of  “We can’t get rid of Kris’ citizenship because he has a lot of influence and endorsements”. This further led to me believing that the answer to what caused this was in the PMs of Imki and GRs, and already having GR’s half, the only thing I needed Imki’s to finally sort this situation out.

However, when I approached Imki about acquiring that information, I was denied, because she didn’t want to make a standard out of sharing PMs with the people, which was perfectly understandable. This sadly does leave my investigation rather open ended, however, In my conversation with Sam, I made note of three theories that I believed were possible.

1. GR actually did threaten to use Kris to Coup the region, and Hile is telling the Truth
2. Something GR said got taken horribly out of context, and Imki read it as "I'm going to use Kris to Coup".
3. GR told Imki that he wasn't going to remove Kris' citizenship until the Assembly heard the issue, where the logs from the Admin only thread would be released, and, somehow, no matter how unlikely, Imki and Hile saw the opportunity for a massive power exchange, and told the entire Cabinet of this situation to secure positions as admins.

As of my conclusion of this investigation, I do believe that the most likely event was in fact theory #2. I do believe that there was some sort of miscommunication between the two, and that escalated to the situation we have now. However, I cannot come to a final conclusion on this as I do not have the last piece of the puzzle. However:

Do I believe that the Cabinet, after my interviews and questions with them, committed an illegal act by creating the new site in secret? Yes, I do. I do believe that it violates the right of the Assembly to make the decision to transfer to a new site.

Do I believe they did so with ill intentions? Not at all. If there was a threat of an Admin coup, I do believe that they acted with integrity in character, and not out of political spite or intended drama, but, out of precaution of a possible threat. I cannot blame them for the actions they’ve taken, but, I cannot say that we should lawfully condone them either.

I believe that the best course of action would be a reset of sorts. Everything I’ve collected suggests that Hileville and his Cabinet were prepared to see the Admins logs before the PM between Imki and GR, and even the suggestion of pursuing it in the Assembly. I believe that we should go back, and have that discussion on the old site. Let both sides present their version of the issue, and let the Assembly decide.
An eye for an eye just makes the whole world go blind.
~Mahatma Gandhi


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Messages In This Thread
RE: Legal Question: On the legality of Hileville and the Cabinet's actions of 21 January - by Resentine - 01-27-2016, 04:55 PM
Determination of Justiciability - by Kris Kringle - 03-06-2021, 12:31 PM



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