| Bicameral-ness |
(01-12-2015, 04:34 PM)TAC Wrote: I'm with GR on this. Most of the regional community refuses to take part in the government. Why should we accommodate people who refuse to at least try? TAC, this argument is akin to writing everything in Spanish and then asking English speakers why they don't try to communicate in Spanish. We haven't given the NS community the chance to participate. Primarily because previously we didn't have the tools to do so in-game, but now we do, so I think it's prudent to at least try.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
I would be able to communicate in Spanish.
Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System
Tsu, what we do on the forums has little to do with day-to-day life on the region page. What happens on the RMB has no affect on the forum community. These are two subsets of a shared community that have little overlap among each other in terms of what defines their games. Just because we share a commonality in having TSP be our name and identity doesn't mean we share other commonalities. The forums are a political game, whereas the region page is a social game. It is not necessary to marry the two, and it does not diminish either to acknowledge that they are separate.
What you want to do radically changes how our community functions. I think you need more of a reason than "we should just give it a try." Allowing the in game region to affect laws and politics on this forum -- a completely separate community, whether you like to see it that way or not -- opens up a plethora of issues that you aren't addressing and haven't tried to address. How do we prevent enemies from hijacking the lower legislature? What do we do when people start massive TG campaigns to basically manipulate the lower chamber? (That is actually fairly easy. Just ask anybody who has experience in the WA.) What happens when people demand that elections also happen on site, which would be a security nightmare?
(01-12-2015, 04:40 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: We haven't given the NS community the chance to participate. How have we NOT given them the chance? How long do we have to advertise the government and the forum before they decide to try? We cannot force them to participate in a place they obviously have zero interest in.
(01-12-2015, 04:51 PM)Sandaoguo Wrote: Tsu, what we do on the forums has little to do with day-to-day life on the region page. What happens on the RMB has no affect on the forum community. These are two subsets of a shared community that have little overlap among each other in terms of what defines their games. Just because we share a commonality in having TSP be our name and identity doesn't mean we share other commonalities. The forums are a political game, whereas the region page is a social game. It is not necessary to marry the two, and it does not diminish either to acknowledge that they are separate. I'm being generous here, GR, but I'm not the one attempting to disenfranchise a entire group of people and then act in their name. We're are the same community; always have been and always will be. Again -- I, and everyone on the forum, has zero power without the in-game mechanisms. (This is why the threats of coups are so serious.) I'm sorry that you are so far removed the the in-game to region to understand how that power structure works, but that's hardly a reason to ignore it. I'm willing to adapt this proposal to address your "concerns" if you want to outline them, but I'm not entertaining this discussion that these are two different sets of the community. That argument is, at best, a bastardized understanding of what NationStates is. (01-12-2015, 04:52 PM)TAC Wrote:(01-12-2015, 04:40 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: We haven't given the NS community the chance to participate. We can advertise, but we've also require them to jump through hoops to get here. They need to sign up on an off-site forum (actually, several over the course of the Coalition), "apply for citizenship" and are giving information to the administrators of these forums. Some people aren't comfortable with that. Overall, we have the ability to make inclusion easier and we should do that. To not use the tools given to us is silly.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
Nobody is being disenfranchised, because they never had the right to vote in the first place. Don't try and paint opposition to this idea as oppressing the on-site masses. There are serious flaws with what you want to do, and pointing to polls doesn't make those go away.
I have outlined at least three very serious problems with your idea. You've been told about these problems before. I don't want to stand by and let our community and government be ruined because you think it would be neat to use polls on site.
That is not solid proof of interest, merely their interpretation and opinion.
As far as these "hoops" they must jump through. It requires minimal effort at best and while they may not be comfortable with giving out information to a stranger, that is entirely their decision. This gives power to an easily compromised community at the price of regional stability and security.
I think G-R is completely mistaken. It undermines our democratic process that we alienate so many of our residents using the forum as a barrier. You invite them to participate in the democratic process through the region, not the forum - and lord behold, they're interested in participating and voice valuable opinions.
Quote:This gives power to an easily compromised community at the price of regional stability and security. The "Pro-Security" concern is easily the most stupid argument against more regional participation in democracies -- security threats are far more likely to sign up on the forums than our own residents (this is a statistical fact). Thus, solely conducting our legislative affairs on the forum has the effect of making us MORE vulnerable, not LESS.
Registering on the forum is not a barrier. You guys are being ridiculous. Our great big problem with growing our forum community is not that registration and citizenship are these huge barriers to entry. The problem is that people aren't interested, because this is a niche community.
|
![[+]](/images/collapse_collapsed.png "[+]")
I am a Super Villain
| Users browsing this thread: |
| 1 Guest(s) |