Since the Charter requires Forum Administration to conduct security checks after the Vice Delegate pre-approves applications, final approval will necessarily come with immediate masking. British Grand Pacific became a citizen the day Forum Administration performed the security check and masked him.

A citizen may no longer meet the requirements, but should be considered a citizen until their status has been properly verified by the relevant immigration official, who would be the Vice Delegate. Until then, and as evidenced by longstanding precedent and practice, the citizen should still be considered as such, since no official with the proper authority has verified their status.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System

(This post was last modified: 03-30-2015, 05:15 PM by sandaoguo.)

Reply

British Grand Pacific became a citizen the day Forum Administration performed the security check and masked him.

If that's true then why, for election purposes, do we always go off the date the Vice-Delegate has approved the candidate, and not the date the Admin's have placed the mask?

That date could be literally weeks after being officially accepted by the Vice-Delegate. The implication is that the member isn't really a citizen, or not a citizen, until the Admin's say so, Government be damned.

Reply

If that's true then why, for election purposes, do we always go off the date the Vice-Delegate has approved the candidate, and not the date the Admin's have placed the mask?

We don't. Date of citizenship has nothing to do with election administration.

The implication is that the member isn't really a citizen, or not a citizen, until the Admin's say so.

That is correct:

2. Upon review the applicant may be either conditionally approved or denied by the Vice Delegate.
3. Upon the applicant being conditionally approved the forum administration staff will conduct a security check to ensure the applicant is not using a proxy, is not trying to avoid a forum ban, and is not a citizen using a different nation. In the event that an applicant is found to be using a proxy, attempting to avoid a forum ban, or applying for citizenship on multiple nations their application will be denied and not subject to appeal.

Notice how the Charter requires authorization from both the Vice Delegate and Forum Administration for citizenship to be granted. True, Forum Administration must restrict its check to issues related to forum security and such, but the point is that the person is not a citizen until cleared by Forum Administration.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System

Reply

2. Upon review the applicant may be either conditionally approved or denied by the Vice Delegate.
3. Upon the applicant being conditionally approved the forum administration staff will conduct a security check to ensure the applicant is not using a proxy, is not trying to avoid a forum ban, and is not a citizen using a different nation. In the event that an applicant is found to be using a proxy, attempting to avoid a forum ban, or applying for citizenship on multiple nations their application will be denied and not subject to appeal.

Notice how the Charter requires authorization from both the Vice Delegate and Forum Administration for citizenship to be granted. True, Forum Administration must restrict its check to issues related to forum security and such, but the point is that the person is not a citizen until cleared by Forum Administration.

The law doesn't say anything about the Admin actually being the approval authority. It seems that rests solely in the hands of the Vice-Delegate. All the Admin can do is preform a security check, with the Vice Delegate being the one by which "the applicant may be either conditionally approved or denied".

The applicant is a citizen when the VD says so, not the Admin. The law is very clear. It even says "1. Citizenship applications will be reviewed by the Vice Delegate."

Therefore, masking does constitute the sole determining factor as to if a member is a citizen or not.

Reply

Wolf, when the VD accepts an application, it is conditional. Says right there in the law. When admins perform a security check, the status goes from conditional to official. It's the admins that change that status, which is marked by changing the masking. The "condition" is admin approval of the application. Can't get much more clear than it already is.

(This post was last modified: 03-30-2015, 07:32 PM by Tsunamy.)

Reply

The Admin doesn't have the authority to approve, only deny, and even then it is the Vice Delegate who is doing the actual denial, based upon what the Admin's have told them. Once they pass the check, they must be masked.

The power is in the hands of the Vice-Delegate, the Admin just acts as a middle man, nothing more.

Reply

It's literally in the law Wolf. Admins do a security check. If it passes, they approve and masking is given. Otherwise, the application is denied. Admins do approve and deny citizenship applications. Not sure how you can think differently. Sounds to me like you're arguing semantics, saying that not denying an applicant based on the security check isn't the same thing as approving an applicant.

(This post was last modified: 03-30-2015, 07:54 PM by Tsunamy.)

Reply

It's not semantics, it's how the law is written it says, directly:

"1. Citizenship applications will be reviewed by the Vice Delegate."

It does not say "Applications will be approved by the Administration".

Similarly, it also states:

"6. If a Citizen no longer has a resident nation their citizenship will be immediately removed by the Vice Delegate."

Not "when the Administration gets around to removing the citizens masking".

Reply

When the Vice Delegate posts approval or denial of any given application, she has no information about Forum Administration. That security check is only conducted on users whose application the Vice Delegate has already pre-approved. If we are satisfied with the results of the check, then masking is applied, upon which moment the user is deemed a citizen.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System

Reply

Yes. The admins can deny an application. However, the date at which citizenship is started is when the VD conditionally approved them.

The condition for approval gives them all rights a citizen gets pending a security check. That is why the word conditionally was used.

The admins don't approve anyone.

Reply