| Truth and Reconciliation |
(02-03-2016, 01:34 PM)Belschaft Wrote: I don't think that either you or Kris are bad people, though neither you or I would call each other friends. I think I made it very clear that there was blame on all sides, and good people on all sides; I don't think anyone involved in this acted intentionally maliciously. But I also think you're not looking at your own behaviour critically, and acknowledging that your personality and behaviour was a problem. I know you don't see it that way, but a lot of others did; I just don't think your well suited, personality wise, for the non-technical aspects of forum administration. And I think that's an opinion formed based on personal animosity, rather than anything I've actually done as an admin. Because despite what some people think, I didn't do very much as an admin. We rarely made decisions independently of each other. And the issues that people are bringing up -- security threat declarations, driving people out of the region, etc. -- were all done by the Cabinet or by the Assembly. Even though all admins were part of the Cabinet over the past year, the biggest issues that have caused problems in TSP aren't not related to forum administration, but rather political events that forum administrators participated in as citizens or government officials, and some people conflating the former and the latter. Is there unhelpful and perhaps harmful ambiguity in our laws about the Vice Delegate and Admins dealing with citizenship? Yes, and we should fix that. Admins have been on the course to shifting all that to the VD already. Our citizenship laws have been a mess for a long time, now. Again, admins did look at forums that we wouldn't otherwise have access to if we weren't forum admins. While this happened on the IP.Board forum, too, it's become a political issue, and so we've already started removing Admin masking from those forums. Other than that, I don't see what issues have been raised that are purely about forum administration, rather than problems some players have with the political life of the admins. On a personal note, people tend to have an issue with the way I post. But I don't know how to fix that. I'm a very forward and honest person, and curtness is just the way I know how to communicate. I don't think that's a fair issue to bring up against me. Plenty of players have no issue at all with my personality, and others really appreciate me for those qualities. There's a common thread among people who really don't like me, and I think it's totally fair to say that it has very little to do with my performance as an administrator.
Guys, I'm not sure we need to have this fight right now. We can discuss administration issues later. This was largely my idea for asking Elu to come in for the time being so we can avoid this debacle in the short term.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
In real-world truth and reconciliation, it's common for both sides to just tell their story. I think it would be really helpful if members of the former Cabinet could write their story and post it, so the rest of us can start to see what it was like for them. Right now, we're all assuming a lot of things that might not be right.
(02-04-2016, 12:25 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: In real-world truth and reconciliation, it's common for both sides to just tell their story. I think it would be really helpful if members of the former Cabinet could write their story and post it, so the rest of us can start to see what it was like for them. Right now, we're all assuming a lot of things that might not be right. Aye. This entire discussion is futile until we have both sides of the story. <33
I'm reviving this, because I think we've already started straying form our goal of reconstructing the region under the premise of reconciliation.
We've already had a call for us to move forum, again. We have people accusing admins of purposefully delaying citizenship applications, to prevent them from participating in elections. We have people jockeying their own individually named proposals, weeks before the convention, which just set us up for petty personal politics. People are already automatically assuming the worst in each other, and believing they're already acting in bad faith. How on earth is this helping? How are we supposed to reconcile anything like this? We need a moratorium on accusation against the admins. We need people to stop trying to start the Great Council earlier than we all had already agreed. We need to stop antagonizing each other. We need to stop parsing people's posts, finding any reason we can to think they're being intransigent, lying, or acting in bad faith. We also still need the truth. We have only heard one Cabinet member's story. We can't heal until we have the whole story. If we keep going down this path, it's going to be ugly. The region isn't going heal. We're going to have yet another repeat of people being driven from the community. I think we all need to press the pause button on posting in this forum. Let's hold elections, and then let's start the Great Council a week after. The way things are going, by the time we get to the Great Council, there won't be any room of compromise at all. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (02-10-2016, 05:52 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: We need a moratorium on accusation against the admins. We also need the admins to start being more cooperative and responsive to community concerns. This is a two way street, and all you can ever come up with are your own grievances. Had Kringalia not completely dismissed my reasonably worded, non-flaming question, and then locked it, and if he had instead reasonably answered my question as Tsu eventually did, that whole thing would have been avoided. You two must stop evading your responsibility for community problems and start owning up to them and changing your behavior. You cannot keep denying that you are part of the problem and blaming everyone else. (02-10-2016, 05:52 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: We need people to stop trying to start the Great Council earlier than we all had already agreed. Again, you need to stop being so inflammatory about it as well. Maybe people would be more open to your point of view if you weren't being, frankly, a huge jerk about it. Once you calmed down, stopped accusing me of stuff, and made a reasonable case, I did pull my proposal and will wait for the Great Council. But you can't expect people to respond well to you ordering them around like you're some big shot and making false accusations against them, and yet that is routinely how you operate. (02-10-2016, 05:52 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: We need to stop antagonizing each other. We need to stop parsing people's posts, finding any reason we can to think they're being intransigent, lying, or acting in bad faith. Yeah, you're probably right. The issue is that you are one of the primary people doing this, so maybe if you take your own advice others will also simmer down. (02-10-2016, 05:52 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: If we keep going down this path, it's going to be ugly. The region isn't going heal. We're going to have yet another repeat of people being driven from the community. I can agree to this, but this means all of us. It means Unibot not trying to provoke a mass purge of citizens, it means you not lording your perceived superiority over everyone, and it means Kringalia not replicating the exact same kind of admin behavior that led some to want a new forum with new admins in the first place. I'm going to be honest: The more you three revert to form, the less interested I am in compromise. I have no idea how true that is of others, but I am 150% sick of your crap and sick of you acting like the only ones doing anything wrong are those who disagree with you. Grow up and start accepting your responsibility for the way TSP is right now.
Cormac, the problem I'm having right now is that you keep saying we're not agreeing that anything is wrong and that we're not willing to make any changes. That's just not true. Changes to the admin team have been postponed until the convention by choice of the Assembly, which I think is lending to this impression that we're not accepting the need for change. We are.
It's just not helpful to keep antagonizing me or Kris. It's seriously to the point where every time either of us disagrees with one of you, *we're* being intransigent and accused of stonewalling the whole process. Both sides have legitimate complaints against the others. You literally supported an illegal coup and cheered it on. But we've agreed to amnesty. We've agreed to making major changes. Now it's starting to be where we're your punching bags, and we're not allowed to say anything about it, much less have a differing opinion on literally anything. Respect and reconciliation is a two-way street. Antagonization breeds resentment and will cause a stalemate. Are we in agreement to stop posting about these issues for now? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's not that you disagree, it's the way you disagree. Believe me, you aren't the only ones who feel like punching bags.
But yes, I can agree to stop posting about these issues until after the election and the Great Council starts. (02-04-2016, 12:29 PM)rhinotaz Wrote:This was mentioned again by Glen, but this likely won't happen. Hileville and Sopo are gone from TSP. TSP has lost those members.(02-04-2016, 12:25 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: In real-world truth and reconciliation, it's common for both sides to just tell their story. I think it would be really helpful if members of the former Cabinet could write their story and post it, so the rest of us can start to see what it was like for them. Right now, we're all assuming a lot of things that might not be right.Aye. This entire discussion is futile until we have both sides of the story. (02-11-2016, 01:38 PM)Rach Wrote:I... did not say that?(02-04-2016, 12:29 PM)rhinotaz Wrote:(02-04-2016, 12:25 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: In real-world truth and reconciliation, it's common for both sides to just tell their story. I think it would be really helpful if members of the former Cabinet could write their story and post it, so the rest of us can start to see what it was like for them. Right now, we're all assuming a lot of things that might not be right.This was mentioned again by Glen, but this likely won't happen. Hileville and Sopo are gone from TSP. TSP has lost those members. EDIT: Oh, you messed up the quote tags. 
<33
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