| Dunblane and Gun Laws |
What he's saying is don't characterize every gun violence inciter as mentally il.
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ProfessorHenn
Legislator (03-20-2016, 12:51 PM)Cathalea Wrote: What he's saying is don't characterize every gun violence inciter as mentally il. And I'm not, however, we're not taking about every incident of gun violence. This subject started out talking about a mass shooting, not general gun violence. If you're going to talk about mass shootings, guess what, mental health is always going to be brought into it. We are either talking about gun-related massacres or we're talking about gun violence in general, because in America they are not one in the same and they tend to be viewed in very different terms. Massacres are usually not preformed spur of the moment or spontaneously out of anger. I think we'd all agree that it's pretty unlikely any normal, rational adult could ever make the claim "I got pretty angry so I suddenly pulled out my gun and killed sixteen children and a school teacher". Pointing to massacres in the US and demanding action will only ever get the discussion turned to mental health and gun ownership for that very specific subset of the population. If you want to push gun-restriction in the US, you need to take another approach.
I'm just gonna say this, cuz I'm just so tired of all the bullshit that's gone on and how little has been done: America's gun debate was over the day the NRA and it's bought politicians decided it was alright for someone to mow down 26 children with an assault rifle because they believe in making it easier to get a gun than prescription pain killers.
Maybe, just maybe, what happened in Orlando may finally start that debate up again, but, until then, any politician arguing that Assault Rifles shouldn't be banned because of "Second Amendment rights" and is "Offering their prayers" for Orlando and it's LGBT community after what happened can go shove it.
An eye for an eye just makes the whole world go blind.
~Mahatma Gandhi
The 2nd Amendment has been a thorn in America's side.
As a gun owner, and at times, owning a small arsenal, the issue is not gun ownership. It is the easy access to them, and once you own one, there is no way to lose the right to have it. If you own a gun and your situation changes, there is no way to get the gun removed. There is no one a doctor, a teacher or cop can call or inform that you should no longer have one. The laws and the permits are in place to stop/permit you from buying or selling a gun, but if I give you one, in all 50 states, you legally own a gun. I can literally sell you a pencil for $200 and throw in a free AR-15. No permits are need to buy ammo, nor proof of even owning a gun.
Should we ban box cutters because of 9/11? Should we ban personal purchasing of fertilizer because of the Oklahoma City bombing of the Federal Building? Should we ban any form of personal luggage because of the Boston Marathon bombing? It's not the gun. (06-14-2016, 08:52 AM)QuietDad Wrote: As a gun owner, and at times, owning a small arsenal, the issue is not gun ownership. It is the easy access to them, and once you own one, there is no way to lose the right to have it. If you own a gun and your situation changes, there is no way to get the gun removed. There is no one a doctor, a teacher or cop can call or inform that you should no longer have one. The laws and the permits are in place to stop/permit you from buying or selling a gun, but if I give you one, in all 50 states, you legally own a gun. I can literally sell you a pencil for $200 and throw in a free AR-15. No permits are need to buy ammo, nor proof of even owning a gun. It is! It is this kind of bullshit that kills people. If it is not the gun then why are there so many more gun related murders in America than in countries with gun control? Why do you need a gun? What does it give you? I get the point that the constitution gives you the right to own one and it's become part of American culture but why do you need one? Europeian Ambassador to The South Pacific
Former Local Council Member Former Minister of Regional Affairs Former High Court Justice
Honestly, QD, I get the restriction arguement, I really do, but there is a reason we had these weapons banned up to 2004, and that's because it was way too damn easy for people just to murder eachother with them. I call bullshit on the 2nd Amendment arguement for these because assuming you are someone who is the least bit competent with a rifle or pistol, you do not need something that has a 30-60 round mag. If you're a competent gun owner, you can do the exact same thing that you can do with an assault rifle that you can do with a shotgun(slugs or pellets), a hunting rifle, or even a 9mm. I honestly believe that if a gun owner knows what s/he is doing, you do not need 30 rounds to take down a "bad guy" with a gun. The only time I have ever heard of somebody using an Assault Rifle(Semi or otherwise) it has been to do stuff like this. To murder a massive amount of people. And every time, just about every god damn time, including this one, they get it legally. That has to change. I'm tired of people dieing. I'm tired of watching people suffer because all these politicians stand silent when something has to happen.
And we did ban box cutters on planes for a long time because of 9/11. Now that there are Air Marshals on just about every flight, that's no longer an issue. And there are plenty of new rules regarding luggage and unattended bags(my college can call in the Bomb squad if a bag is unattended for ~30 minutes). Since Sandy Hook, since Aurora, nothing has been done. All we've seen is silence.
An eye for an eye just makes the whole world go blind.
~Mahatma Gandhi
We're just going to have to agree to disagree. The shooter in Orlando just bought the gun AFTER being turned away from buying body armor and the gun store owner was a former law enforcement official and he still passed all the security checks getting the gun permit. This is where the problem lies.
As to me owning a gun, I grew up and still hunt and eat everything I shoot. When I got remarried recently, I inherited 3 teen stepsons and reduced the "aresenal" and further locked up what I kept because I was a teen once, I got my first shotgun at 14 and there will be no accidents here. The boys and I went thru alot of discussion and training about guns. Education has a purpose. I spent 16 years in the Marine Corps and am not worried about my guns or me with them. When I hunt, I run into people all the time that make me nervous. It's a risk *I* take and am aware of. The boys are not ready to go out with me yet because I don't trust them at that level yet. Criminals will ALWAYS be able to get a firearm. ALWAYS. They exist everywhere and can be bought on the street any day of the week. In every country, no matter what the law is, there are illegal guns out there. It's not a matter of more or less killing. 1 death is just as tragic as 50. You also have to realize that people are going to kill no matter what the laws are and no matter what weapons are available. People still get beaten to death or strangle by one's hands. Should we cut off everyone's hands? Keeping the body count down and stopping the killing are two extremely different things.
Let's see. Australia put strict gun laws in the 90's. Australia has not had a mass shooting ever since that I know of, and gun-related crime has gone down.
Florida relaxed its gun laws because of the stupid Republican gun-loving freak(debatable) governor. What happened? Oh yeah, a mass shooting killing 50 and injuring 53. I understand you can hunt with guns and stuff. But we must, and I mean MUST impose strict gun laws. A gun is a serious weapon, not some toy or another thing in your house. Guns. Kill. People.
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