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***Kris Kringle*** · 04-20-2016, 09:16 PM

I mean, this is the place where we are supposed to have debates, and I like to think this particular one has been entirely civil? :s
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My position is it doesn't matter whether we provide material assistance, though I'd very much like the SPSF (which does have experience with these matters) to help Osiris. I think we would be setting a bad internal precedent by failing to condemn violations of the democratic process. There is no downside to declaring our position, none that we can't handle in any case. In fact, this is an excellent opportunity to show how our support of democracy isn't about helping out regions with which we are close (though naturally we will always be more engaged when it's about an ally). It's about the principle and the people who reside in each region.

This is clear cut. A few people decided they knew better than the entire electorate, and are now creating a narrative where they are the heroes. Many regions are stepping up to decry this, and it'd be a shame for the game's oldest democracy not to do the same. Our ability to provide material assistance might be limited, but our commitment to democracy must not waver.

It's time to speak up.

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***Tsunamy*** · 04-20-2016, 10:05 PM

(04-20-2016, 09:16 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote:
I mean, this is the place where we are supposed to have debates, and I like to think this particular one has been entirely civil? :s

I'm don't especially appreciate the usurpation of power when we have people in this thread announcing that the Assembly can force the Cabinet to act. Especially since the Cabinet *has* been discussing this.

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***Kris Kringle*** · 04-20-2016, 10:16 PM

You know I'm no fan of Assembly Supremacy. My only interest here is to advocate a position, so when the Cabinet makes its determination, it can have a full view of the sentiment within the region and consider the arguments being made in this thread. I simply want to bring up some points, which I think are relevant to the discussion.

If the Cabinet decides to condemn the coup, I'll be happy. If it decides to stay silent, I won't be happy. But either way the world moves on, and so will I. I'm not here to force your hand. I'm simply here to propose a course of action based on my own beliefs on this matter.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

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Omega · 04-20-2016, 10:28 PM

I think what may be good idea would be to have the MoFA have a representative to both parties as to assist in negotiations. That is if we decide to act neutral. If we decide to support one side we should send a representative to that side and discuss with them how we can support them. That's what Lazarus is looking at doing.

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**Belschaft** · 04-20-2016, 10:34 PM

(04-20-2016, 10:05 PM)Tsunamy Wrote:
(04-20-2016, 09:16 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote:
I mean, this is the place where we are supposed to have debates, and I like to think this particular one has been entirely civil? :s

I'm don't especially appreciate the usurpation of power when we have people in this thread announcing that the Assembly can force the Cabinet to act. Especially since the Cabinet *has* been discussing this.

It's not an usurpation of power Tsu; the Assembly has directed the Cabinet to act in a specific manner when it comes to foreign policy on multiple past occasions. Further, I only raised the point in response to a cabinet member making an inaccurate statement to the contrary.

The Cabinet governs with the advice and consent of the Assembly, and as frustrating as that can be sometimes for the Cabinet, that's the way it's been for as long as I can remember.

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Omega · 04-20-2016, 11:08 PM

Okay this isn't a conversation about who has more power that's for the GC. We need to decide what we want to do!

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Awe · 04-21-2016, 02:47 AM

(04-20-2016, 07:22 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: Oh for f---'s sake! Since we want to have this debate in public — let's have at it.

I've been making the case to the Cabinet that a statement of neutrality or minor condemnation would be ideal. Nothing major, just something along the lines saying that two people shouldn't get to overrule an entire government — whether or not there are questions — and that we hope the entire situation is resolved quickly.

As a region that has minimal contact with Osiris, I see no reason for us to whip our d--- out, but I do think it would be beneficial to come out in support of democracy, whether or not we explicitly condemn the "transitional government."

For the record, I have already told Res that he and the SPSF can assist in any way they can. Since several of our allies are taking up arms in support, we have plenty of opportunity to.

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***Tsunamy*** · 04-21-2016, 11:12 AM

(04-20-2016, 10:34 PM)Belschaft Wrote: It's not an usurpation of power Tsu; the Assembly has directed the Cabinet to act in a specific manner when it comes to foreign policy on multiple past occasions. Further, I only raised the point in response to a cabinet member making an inaccurate statement to the contrary.

The Cabinet governs with the advice and consent of the Assembly, and as frustrating as that can be sometimes for the Cabinet, that's the way it's been for as long as I can remember.

I actually believe in Assembly supremacy and, if the Assembly wanted to draft a statement and post on behalf of the Assembly, by all means.

Perhaps usurpation was too strong of a word, but I'd simply appreciate the chance to get the Cabinet in order before we start constructing this like the Cabinet isn't or is refusing to act.

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***sandaoguo*** · 04-21-2016, 12:25 PM

As far as I can tell, it's just Bel saying the Assembly might have to direct the Cabinet on what to do. I remember telling that idea to f* off when I was MoFA Tounge

The Assembly, though, has usually talked about coups when they happen. Knowing our positions should be useful in helping the Cabinet reach theirs. And then, of course, we debate the Cabinet's decision.

Omega · 04-21-2016, 08:04 PM

Okay so we should draft something!

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