This isn't something I'm all gung-ho about right now, but I notice it's been discussed off and on by the past few Cabinets. Balder isn't really an ally of ours. We've never done anything together. They were part of the attempt to get us to dissolve our alliances with TRR and Lazarus, which I can confirm based on my own conversations with Rach at the time. Most recently, they cheered on the illegal forum move, defended Hileville's coup, and attacked our allies (TRR & Lazarus) for taking our side during it.

I don't consider them an ally at all, and neither did Tsu when he was Delegate: http://tspforums.xyz/thread-3997-post-12...#pid124281

I think we should just pull the band aid off quickly and stop pretending like there's any relationship there, or that there will be in the future. Not even Raven or Hileville bothered to put Balder on the map.

(This post was last modified: 07-12-2016, 11:23 AM by sandaoguo.)

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I've drafted a statement for this:

Statement from the Cabinet
of the Coalition of The South Pacific

Dissolution of Treaty with Balder

The Cabinet of the Coalition of The South Pacific has been conducting a review of our diplomatic and military alliances, as the first mandated Cabinet since the reformation of the Coalition. A review of our relationship with Balder shows that it has been largely non-existent since the inception of the treaty between our two regions. Since 2012, there have been few inter-regional events, very little communication, and several instances of hostile comments from members of the Balder monarchy.
 
We were dismayed at Queen Solorni’s positions on the coup of early 2016, calling it a "step in a positive direction," which showed a lack of respect for the Coalition’s laws, government, and forum community. Unlike our other treaty allies, Balder did not come to the aid of the legitimate government of The South Pacific. Indeed, Queen Solorni attacked our allies in Lazarus and Balder for coming to our aid, calling them "two inactive and defender sinkers [who have] backed the manipulative defender forces in TSP."
 
Article 1 of the TSP-Balder Treaty reads as follows:
 
1) Each signatory recognises the government and laws of the other signatory as rightful and shall not seek to overthrow them or assist another region or organisation in doing so.
 
It is our belief that Balder failed to uphold their obligation under our treaty, by recognizing the Transitional Government over the legitimate Coalition. We cannot be confident that Queen Solorni, Prince North East Somerset, or the Staatsraadet, can be relied upon to come to the aid of the legitimate government should we face a future rogue Delegate or invading force. In other words, Balder's treaty commitment to come to our aid during invasion or coup is not credible, rendering our bilateral treaty ineffective.
 
Treaties are more than just words on forums. We believe that actions speak to the true intentions and interests of our treaty partners. For that reason, we hereby invoke Article 7 of the TSP-Balder Treaty, dissolving the treaty effective five days from this day.

I can't find a working copy of our seal

(This post was last modified: 07-12-2016, 12:33 PM by sandaoguo.)

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We should also take this time to do a review of our other alliances.

TNP was invaluable during our counter-coup efforts, Eluvatar in particular. Our relationship is currently very strong, probably the strongest among all our alliances.

I'm concerned that we haven't had much interaction with Lazarus, TRR, and Spiritus this year. All three regions have relatively active military forces, so I think it would be good for Imki to see if there are missions the SPSF can join in on. The upside is that, even though these alliances are dormant for the time being, I'm confident all three would come to our aid when called upon.

Europeia is worrisome for me due to their lackluster response to the coup. Political considerations prevent me from doing much about that. Europeian officials aren't big fans of me, nor I of them. This relationship will probably remain inactive this term. Imki could see about military cooperation, of course. I would caution not participating in imperialist missions, though. Basic raids would be ok, but occupations would not only tie the SPSF down, but could also anger our defender allies.

Through the term, I'm going to explore relations with the International Democratic Union, a WA-focused region.

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I believe Roavin had the beginnings of a Festival planned between TRR-Spiritus-TSP.
Last I knew, TRR backed out, so that just leave Spiritus and TSP. That will still help fill some of the gap in interaction.

I know Imki has done a few missions before and after start of term, just not sure who with 100%.

I am totally in agreement with the Balder removal.
Both sides have lacked any diplomatic relations since the beginning of the relationship, and the lack of support during a crisis is unforgivable in my opinion.

Semi-Unretired

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On Balder: Yeah, kill it. I like the statement.

On the other regions: I can confirm that we're just about to have a festival with Spiritus. TRR isn't part of it afterall, unfortunately, due to lack of response by their Culture Minister. Lazarus would be something to look at for another festival. I'll keep that in mind.

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Sorry for the delayed response, flu has been kicking my ass and I wanted to make sure I could think clearly before posting~


So, you're all probably gunna' think I'm just trying to be a pain in the arse by saying this but I think it's important that it's said; Balder supported us, yes, but we were the democratically elected government at the time (no matter how much people seem to want to overlook this?) and there was a lot of confusion among other regions about what was going on. Quite a lot of regions supported us in that time, I don't think you want to go using that as an excuse to break down relationships with them personally.

I would also like to ask if any attempts to do anything with them has come from our end? They have not been particularly proactive but have we? The lack of activity has seemed pretty mutual to me, if neither party has made any effort for a while could this be a bit hasty? Could we not try and see if we can revive something between us before throwing this treaty in the bin?

Just my thoughts on the matter, I don't actually have particularly strong feelings for or against for the most part.


Regarding SPSF working with other organisations; I have already been working with Gladio of the NPA and I am pretty happy to say our working relationship with them has been great so far.
I've been in contact with WritingLegend about working with the ERN but their recent operations have not seemed like things I have wanted to involve the SPSF with so I am hoping to come up with a mutually beneficial operation with them some time soon instead.
As for Lazarus, TRR, and Spiritus, I have not spoken to any of these organisations personally but I'm happy to reach out to them and see what I can do. I'll keep the cabinet updated on our progress there.

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I realize you're never going to hop on the coup bandwagon, but there really isn't any point in rehashing the same argument every time it comes up. :\ Other regions knew where the forum move was headed, and when actual banjecting happened, it was a textbook coup no matter who was the elected government.

TNP, Spiritus, Lazarus, and TRR all helped (in their own ways) to restore order following the banjections. Euro dithered until it was over, almost certainly because the coup was targeted at me. Balder, through Rach, actively antagonized the counter-coup and the allies who supported us. I was specific to mention that because we aren't getting rid of the treaty just because they didn't help. Otherwise we'd be getting rid of Euro's treaty, too. It's that plus Rach's comments, plus the nonexistence of any real relationship since the treaty was signed anyways. It was always just a symbolic treaty signed when Hileville and Belschaft were hitching our wagon to the Independent-imperialist bloc. Balder has never been a particularly good ally, and high level members of its government (like North East Somerset) have in the past done things purposefully in an attempt to ruin our treaties with Lazarus and TRR. (The manufactured scandal about the Euro Conference vs Lazarus Conference was a concerted effort trying to ruin our relations with Laz.)

On the whole, they're not that great.

On the defending side, you can also get in touch with the Grey Wardens. They're basically an apolitical defender group. You could try XKI (10000 Islands), but historically they've avoided working with GCRs.

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