| The Commission on Procedure (COP) |
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I would like it stated for the record who besides the three official members were involved in this process to any extent (including the Chair and any deputies).
(01-27-2017, 03:53 AM)Tim Wrote:So I was working on something it just never got done. And at this point I have forgotten. My apologies there.(01-09-2017, 09:56 AM)Omega Wrote:Smells like bullshit to me, lad. Got to be honest, there's no way y'all could have been drafting a statement for literally that long, if you were actually actively working on that. Pro-Tip, it sounds better to say that you legit did just forget about something rather than give a claim that it's been "in the works" for ages.(01-09-2017, 09:28 AM)sandaoguo Wrote: So it's been an entire term, and it looks like Omega will be re-elected.. What's the actual status on this? What are you guys discussing??? (01-27-2017, 09:07 AM)Farengeto Wrote: I would like it stated for the record who besides the three official members were involved in this process to any extent (including the Chair and any deputies).Myself Ryccia Frost Roavin Griffindor Above all else, I hope to be a decent person.
Has Been What's Next? CoA: August 2016-January 2017
Minister of Foreign Affairs: October 2019-June 2020, October 2020- February 2021
We apologize for the substantial delay in publishing an update.
An update from the Commission on Procedure. The Commission has done work some work on assembly procedure. The commission has not planned for radical changes to current procedures. However, the commission is looking into how the assembly or legislators can notify and inform the CoA on proposals. We have a rough proposal drafted, but are currently tweaking and revising it. After debate we moved to decorum, nothing radical on that front has been proposed. The general ideas were that people overall need to be respectful to others and their beliefs. We have also been discussing on codifying the procedure for moderator or admin suppression in the Assembly to ensure accountability and prevent moderators from going rogue (i.e. Suppressing users with little evidence). The Commission has also discussed LC-Assembly relations to streamline or reform current procedures of interacting with members of the Local council to reduce meddling in both branches. The Commission is still planning to discuss how to codify the specific powers of the Chair and Deputy Chair, and develop a list of motions for the Assembly. At this time, the commission recommends including a succession clause within the Charter allowing the DCoA to take over the role of the CoA in the event of the CoA’s CTE or removal. The Commission’s current focus is on legislative format and syntax, as well as compiling an easy how to manual on legislation drafting to promote assembly activity. Frost Chair of the Commision Omega Chair of the Assembly Ryccia Deputy Chair of the Assembly Griffindor Commission Member
I mean no disrespect, but I think I speak for many when I say that, after nearly three months, I expected more substantial results from the Commission.
Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System (01-27-2017, 11:32 PM)Imperial Frost Federation Wrote: We apologize for the substantial delay in publishing an update. FOUR MONTHS and this is what you've come up with? What you describe here isn't even a proposal, it's a statement of common sense facts. "The general ideas were that people overall need to be respectful to others and their beliefs." Does this even need to be debated? This is an obvious statement on basic rules of debate, not a basis for a proposal. What constitutes not being respectful, how do you enforce it? Those are real questions and ideas. "We have also been discussing on codifying the procedure for moderator or admin suppression in the Assembly to ensure accountability and prevent moderators from going rogue (i.e. Suppressing users with little evidence)." Has this ever even been a problem? You make it you like this is a major issue but in my years of the Assembly I struggle to remember a single incident of major abuse by the Chair or our Admins in the Assembly. "The Commission has also discussed LC-Assembly relations to streamline or reform current procedures of interacting with members of the Local council to reduce meddling in both branches." Meddling? What meddling exists here, because I haven't seen any. If anything the largest problem seems to be the extended delays in the Office of the Chair sending these proposals to gameside, not meddling. "The Commission is still planning to discuss how to codify the specific powers of the Chair and Deputy Chair, and develop a list of motions for the Assembly." The powers of the Chair and even deputy chair (the only deputy even codified in the Charter) are already rather clearly defined in the Charter, what is there that is even ambiguous enough to need to be "codified"? And what does a"list of motions" mean? There's only one type of motion and it should go straight to vote. At this time, the commission recommends including a succession clause within the Charter allowing the DCoA to take over the role of the CoA in the event of the CoA’s CTE or removal. If nothing else this violates our entire democratic principles, allowing an unelected and unappointed successor to replace the elected Chair for what under current laws would be another full term. We elect a new Chair to replace the one we elected, not allow the Chair to select their own successor. And in the event of a removal the Chair and their Deputy are likely both compromised, and should be replaced for it. "The Commission’s current focus is on legislative format and syntax, as well as compiling an easy how to manual on legislation drafting to promote assembly activity. " I thought this committee was supposed to be about procedure. This seems to be branching off to a minor and entirely unrelated topics while we have seen quite frankly zero results in any of the areas that were actually the focus of the committee. You've had four months, and entire TSP political term, to work on this and this is all you can present us with? Not a proposal? Frankly not even a single concrete idea? I wouldn't even call this a list of discussion topics, most of them are so broad and half of them didn't even need a discussion in the first place. This entire "report" would practically amount to the day one opening outline for a proposal writing, and your conclusion seems to just be that you need more time. After this long I had expected at least something from this "Commission".
This is in no way a report. This was a statement on what has occurred so far. A final report is being drafted for release.
Above all else, I hope to be a decent person.
Has Been What's Next? CoA: August 2016-January 2017
Minister of Foreign Affairs: October 2019-June 2020, October 2020- February 2021
I'll be frank, the Commission on Procedure has been plagued with activity issues since day one due to the small roster of officials, and has devolved into an echo-chamber of sorts as there is no new perspective. I understand the frustration of Kris, Far, and many other members that the Commission could have gotten more done in the last 2 months as we actually started work late November, since it could be done. There was a holiday recess planned for Christmas and New Years as many of our small staff couldn't be online then, which didn't help as we were not transparent with many of our activities. For that I sincerely Apologize to the members of the Assembly.
I will talk with the CoA to increase our roster so that activity isn't an issue, as well as post a bi-weekly update much like the one getting flak to keep the region informed of our activities until we get a series of proposals done. I will be happy to answer all questions. With regards to Far's questions: 1. The decision to establish a "successor" was to act as a fail safe in the event that the Chair should CTE or be removed. We are still debating whether or not the acting chair will preside for the duration of the special elections or will preside over the remainder of their term. As well as how they will be selected/elected if they are to act as a "successor". 2. the code of conduct may or may not be relevant at this point in time, but when the region was highly toxic 2 years ago after the Constitutional Crisis Coup, there was the risk of admin/mod power abuse. We also do not want to take a page from other authoritarian game regions to which I'm sure you have encountered, and sought to mitigate some of the damage that may have occurred when the region is plunged into turmoil. 3. With regards to the "Supposed" meddling by the Assembly and Local Council, the risk was there. At least until the legislation was passed to clarify home rule. Furthermore, the risk of meddling is still there as the block vote is a substantial amount of power granted to the local council and can be used to pass through a contentious bill when the vote is close. There may also be times in the future where the assembly may draft legislation specifically targetting the Local council so that it eventually loses home-rule, and/or incorporated as a lower house in the assembly. 4. with regards to codifying the powers of the chair and deputy chair, we felt it was prudent to actually outline specific procedures so that the chair can better help guide Assembly debate into the creation of bills, as well as better maintain decorum and order. 5. With regard to our move into syntax and format, the reason we did so is to streamline our code of laws and allow new members of the assembly to understand the process and procedures of drafting laws in the assembly so that aside from the heavyweights such as yourself, Glen, Bel, and some others, newer users can participate in drafting legislation so it is still within our purpose of procedures. We are lucky to have users like you (Farengeto), Belschaft, Glen (Sandaoguo), Tsunamy, Kris, Drugged Monkeys, Seraph, Roavin, Omega, Grif, and others. However, not all users are like you folks, and may abuse their powers, therefore the region must maintain some vigilance to prevent the next milograd, constitutional crisis, or coup. (01-28-2017, 10:32 AM)Imperial Frost Federation Wrote: I'll be frank, the Commission on Procedure has been plagued with activity issues since day one due to the small roster of officials, and has devolved into an echo-chamber of sorts as there is no new perspective. I understand the frustration of Kris, Far, and many other members that the Commission could have gotten more done in the last 2 months as we actually started work late November, since it could be done. There was a holiday recess planned for Christmas and New Years as many of our small staff couldn't be online then, which didn't help as we were not transparent with many of our activities. For that I sincerely Apologize to the members of the Assembly. Five individuals is hardly a small team and no excuse. Most of our major laws have been written by fewer people and in far less time than this committee. You can talk about "Lack of new perspective" but so far this Committee hasn't provided any perspectives at all. What your timeline tells me is in the time since this committee has been created you've spent at least a month not even starting, a few weeks on holiday, and in the entire month you've actually "worked" on this you can't even provide a single bit of progress? Half the time this committee has been around it hadn't even started work yet? 1. I'm sorry but all you've done here is prove my original point. Chairs are elected by the region, not appointed by their predecessor. What you suggest here either requires a dual ballot or the creation of a position with no electoral accountability. In fact the Chair is essentially the only government body with provisions for operation during its vacancy: 7. The Chair or their designated deputy is responsible for the creation of a voting thread, and recording the votes. In the event that the Chair or their designated deputy does not or cannot perform their duties in a reasonable timeframe, any member of the Assembly may create a voting thread. An acting chair is already unnecessary with clauses like these. No position in TSP has a designated successor who would take over fully. Even when the Vice Delegate fit that category they were elected under the Delegate's ballot. 2. When a coup happens there's a lot bigger of a problem than a moderator getting trigger happy. If a side starts doing that they probably don't care about the Assembly rules to begun with and another regulation would hardly fix that. The only people who can even do this abuse right now is the Chair and the admins. The former is the literal definition of a recall circumstance and the latter is covered under the Admin section of the Charter: a. Recalls should only be initiated for dereliction of duty, abuse of authority, or violations of the law, and not for purposes of political rivalry. 2. The Forum Administration Team will be responsible for the appointment and removal of its own members, except when an administrator is removed from the position following a guilty verdict in a fair trial for abuse of administrative powers. Additionally, new administrators must be approved by a majority of the Assembly before being granted administrator permissions. 3. Okay, I'll be honest. I don't even slightly understand your point here. First of all that "substantial amount of power" is literally the job of the block vote. I don't understand how you propose controlling it without removing Local Council power altogether. In the second half you completely contradict yourself with this argument. I don't even understand what you're suggesting, are you worried that the Local Council will be used to weaken the power of the Local Council? 4. That's not power of the chair, that's what the Commission was supposed to have focused on in the first place. What you outline there is exactly what the Charter says the job of the Chair is, not some new insight: 2. The Assembly will elect a Chair for a term lasting four months. The Chair is responsible for maintaining order and decorum, and helping guide Assembly debate into the creation of bills. If a Chair is recalled or otherwise not in office, a new Chair will be elected for a new term lasting four months. The Election Commission will be responsible for organizing Chair elections. The duties of the Chair are very simple and already very clearly stated. (I'm not going to bother highlighting the laws for that.) For as long as I've been here the Chair has always been about simply managing administration of the Assembly, I don't see what duties and powers it could be missing. 5. "Syntax and format" is hardly the largest issue, and I think you severely underestimate the scope of what you suggest. Implementing that (still extremely vague) change requires the complete rewriting of our entire laws. It's a huge change to try and pursue when this committee apparently hasn't even started on its primary focus, and I'm still unclear what in terms of Assembly operation is currently supposed to be so enigmatic. This Committee seems rather fixated on these coup situations in their points but these are literally the one situation where assembly rules are irrelevant. A coup doesn't care what the laws say, a coup will dissolve and ignore any laws they don't like and there is nothing the Chair can possibly do to prevent that. None of those situations even dealt with the Assembly, in most cases they dissolve the Assembly outright.
(01-28-2017, 10:32 AM)Imperial Frost Federation Wrote: I understand the frustration of Kris I wasn't really frustrated. I saw the update and was surprised because it had been three months since the Commission was first convened. It seemed odd that there would be no results yet. (01-28-2017, 10:32 AM)Imperial Frost Federation Wrote: However, not all users are like you folks, and may abuse their powers, therefore the region must maintain some vigilance to prevent the next milograd, constitutional crisis, or coup. *puts on historian cap* It's worth mentioning that no coup in our history has been about the enforcement of Assembly rules. Out of the six coups we have had, three were either shortly before or shortly after the establishment of the Coalition*, so the government was considerably unstable already. Out of the three coups since, one was due to Devonitians endotarting and two were due to the Delegate dissolving the government. They had nothing to do with Assembly rules, and would not have been prevented by their existence or modification. I'm saying this only to set the record straight in terms of the relationship between coups and the Assembly, and because I really enjoy talking about regional history. I'm not out to fight anyone, nor to publicly take sides in this situation, so I won't get into the substance of your other arguments. I just hope the historical context was useful. :) * 1.The New Ali Coup during the Killer Monkeys Delegacy, but arguably before the Coalition was fully established. 2. The XYZ Affair Coup in June 2003, which overthrew Goddessness. 3. The Fathoms Below Coup, that same month, which was allegedly The XYZ Affair hacking The Fathoms Below's account. Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System
I have to agree with Farengeto here. This is beyond farcical.
Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making
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