MoRA is always going To be a large job. The person elected needs to be able to handle it.'if they planned thoroughly the Ministry will work fine as it is now (not saying the current minister is bad).

Yes it is however all the past Minister's since Kris all planned out what they would do and each had their strengths however each has had severe shortcomings in some aspects, they should all accept that. I have and will always do so. You can read about being Minister, you can be in the AC and be a Deputy but until you actually become Minister you have no real idea how difficult it really is. No amount of planning can prepare you for all the different branches of RA.

Perhaps you're right. But the structure proposed here entirely overlaps. "Integration" and promoting regional activities are fundamentally the same thing in practice. Our regional media and trying to promote the region abroad should be highly intertwined. This is just a couple simple examples, you can call them separate but the aspects of MoRA are simply too intertwined to split like that.

EDIT: Also building on this, the workload is exactly why MoRAs have typically appointed deputies to delegate. No minister can or should do all this work, they use a staff to manage everything else.

I disagree. Promoting regional activity is to keep players in TSP and to make the region a fun place to be. What about Integration in terms of a new player who has no idea about what to do? You can't just promote regional activities to make that player remain in the game let alone region. What about players who would like to get stuck in but don't know where to start or are maybe just too nervous to start? That is not "fundamentally the same thing in practice" it is completely different. The Cultural side of RA is to make the region a fun place to be, the integration side of RA is to help new players understand the game and region and then get involved they are two very different roles.

Yes I agree with that point but at the end of the day the Minister still has to be in charge. They still have to do some planning, they do still have to show leadership, they do need to work in all areas when they may really only want to work on some areas. That also can lead to people not knowing who to contact, if they should contact the Minister or Deputy or AC member or whoever. Another benefit of splitting the Ministries is that you would get a more streamlined system that would lead to better management.

Europeian Ambassador to The South Pacific
Former Local Council Member
Former Minister of Regional Affairs
Former High Court Justice

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I think part of the problem with leading Regional Affairs is that it requires a long-term vision. That is not to say my precedessors and successors have lacked a vision or the ability to enact it (most, particularly but not exclusively post-Escade, have been more than capable), but there is a difference between doing a good job in some areas and doing a comprehensively good job in most areas.

There were many times in which I failed miserably at this, because I focused too much on what could be achieved in the short term as opposed to what should be the result in the long term. Often it's not a matter of what festival we can do next, but how many festivals to we want done. It's not a matter of when we can get a newspaper issue released next, but how often do we want them released.

Having that kind of overarching vision is very difficult, something that few can hold for long, myself included, and that is the real key to success in Regional Affairs.

With that in mind, whether or not splitting the Ministry will make enacting that kind of vision easier, that is something I'd rather not say. It just might. It just might not. I just mean to emphasise how, as I said last time this came up, true success will eventually happen because of how the leadership acts, not what the law says.

But we can make that leadership easier by reducing the workload of the Minister.

There are very few examples in NS that give one Ministry so many responsibilities many have taken the step to separate it into two Ministries, some even further and have three Ministries. Those regions have not suffered, those regions have seen an increase in output from all Ministries.

What I'm asking you all is why are you so afraid of doing something different? You are all acting as if the Ministry is working amazingly well at the moment. I'm not attacking Seraph here but the Ministry is no where near the levels of output it once was, Seraph is doing a very good job at rebuilding much better than me but at the end of the day it does still have lower levels of activity than we want or should be expected.

The sense I'm getting at is not that people are against the idea of two separate Ministries but rather there is no political will to do so. No one wants to take that risk because what about if it doesn't work? People are just too afraid to take a risk and try something different. Why not try two Ministries out for a term as a test? If it works awful then I'll hold my hands up and write the legislation to recreate RA again. But it could really help the region and it could have been what we needed? There is no harm in trying it out, I doubt very much that all the FP staff will leave if the Ministry splits and don't come back if we needed to re-join them again.

So why don't you try something different, instead of thinking about the negatives think about the positives and take a risk and take a chance and see what happens otherwise we'll never get anything done again.

Europeian Ambassador to The South Pacific
Former Local Council Member
Former Minister of Regional Affairs
Former High Court Justice

Reply

Perhaps you're right. But the structure proposed here entirely overlaps. "Integration" and promoting regional activities are fundamentally the same thing in practice. Our regional media and trying to promote the region abroad should be highly intertwined. This is just a couple simple examples, you can call them separate but the aspects of MoRA are simply too intertwined to split like that.

EDIT: Also building on this, the workload is exactly why MoRAs have typically appointed deputies to delegate. No minister can or should do all this work, they use a staff to manage everything else.

I disagree. Promoting regional activity is to keep players in TSP and to make the region a fun place to be. What about Integration in terms of a new player who has no idea about what to do? You can't just promote regional activities to make that player remain in the game let alone region. What about players who would like to get stuck in but don't know where to start or are maybe just too nervous to start? That is not "fundamentally the same thing in practice" it is completely different. The Cultural side of RA is to make the region a fun place to be, the integration side of RA is to help new players understand the game and region and then get involved they are two very different roles.

Yes I agree with that point but at the end of the day the Minister still has to be in charge. They still have to do some planning, they do still have to show leadership, they do need to work in all areas when they may really only want to work on some areas. That also can lead to people not knowing who to contact, if they should contact the Minister or Deputy or AC member or whoever. Another benefit of splitting the Ministries is that you would get a more streamlined system that would lead to better management.

They're really not that different though. Both are fundamentally about helping players to get involved and do things in the region. The only difference is explaining hpw certain things work for new users, but showing them how things work is not the same as getting them involved.

And while the minister is still in charge they don't have to do everything themselves. The fundamental job of leadership position is organizing and delegating work. They don't need to be involved in every part, they just need to make sure it gets done. They can work for the minister directly, the minister can place someone in charge of a project, not everything needs one person managing it.

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Regional affairs and Integration are separate enough.

Sending out a Communications telegram vs doing internal regional stuff

if you have enough manpower you can split it

Reply

I think part of the problem with leading Regional Affairs is that it requires a long-term vision. That is not to say my precedessors and successors have lacked a vision or the ability to enact it (most, particularly but not exclusively post-Escade, have been more than capable), but there is a difference between doing a good job in some areas and doing a comprehensively good job in most areas.

There were many times in which I failed miserably at this, because I focused too much on what could be achieved in the short term as opposed to what should be the result in the long term. Often it's not a matter of what festival we can do next, but how many festivals to we want done. It's not a matter of when we can get a newspaper issue released next, but how often do we want them released.

Having that kind of overarching vision is very difficult, something that few can hold for long, myself included, and that is the real key to success in Regional Affairs.

With that in mind, whether or not splitting the Ministry will make enacting that kind of vision easier, that is something I'd rather not say. It just might. It just might not. I just mean to emphasise how, as I said last time this came up, true success will eventually happen because of how the leadership acts, not what the law says.

But we can make that leadership easier by reducing the workload of the Minister.

There are very few examples in NS that give one Ministry so many responsibilities many have taken the step to separate it into two Ministries, some even further and have three Ministries. Those regions have not suffered, those regions have seen an increase in output from all Ministries.

What I'm asking you all is why are you so afraid of doing something different? You are all acting as if the Ministry is working amazingly well at the moment. I'm not attacking Seraph here but the Ministry is no where near the levels of output it once was, Seraph is doing a very good job at rebuilding much better than me but at the end of the day it does still have lower levels of activity than we want or should be expected.

The sense I'm getting at is not that people are against the idea of two separate Ministries but rather there is no political will to do so. No one wants to take that risk because what about if it doesn't work? People are just too afraid to take a risk and try something different. Why not try two Ministries out for a term as a test? If it works awful then I'll hold my hands up and write the legislation to recreate RA again. But it could really help the region and it could have been what we needed? There is no harm in trying it out, I doubt very much that all the FP staff will leave if the Ministry splits and don't come back if we needed to re-join them again.

So why don't you try something different, instead of thinking about the negatives think about the positives and take a risk and take a chance and see what happens otherwise we'll never get anything done again.

I didn't say your idea was bad. I simply said that one should be careful to think splitting the Ministry would be the solution to its problems. It might help, but it also might not help. Having a consistent long-term vision that Ministers actually implement is the only solution that is certain to work. Like I said though, it might or might not be helped by other measures, among them yours.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
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I think part of the problem with leading Regional Affairs is that it requires a long-term vision. That is not to say my precedessors and successors have lacked a vision or the ability to enact it (most, particularly but not exclusively post-Escade, have been more than capable), but there is a difference between doing a good job in some areas and doing a comprehensively good job in most areas.

There were many times in which I failed miserably at this, because I focused too much on what could be achieved in the short term as opposed to what should be the result in the long term. Often it's not a matter of what festival we can do next, but how many festivals to we want done. It's not a matter of when we can get a newspaper issue released next, but how often do we want them released.

Having that kind of overarching vision is very difficult, something that few can hold for long, myself included, and that is the real key to success in Regional Affairs.

With that in mind, whether or not splitting the Ministry will make enacting that kind of vision easier, that is something I'd rather not say. It just might. It just might not. I just mean to emphasise how, as I said last time this came up, true success will eventually happen because of how the leadership acts, not what the law says.

But we can make that leadership easier by reducing the workload of the Minister.

There are very few examples in NS that give one Ministry so many responsibilities many have taken the step to separate it into two Ministries, some even further and have three Ministries. Those regions have not suffered, those regions have seen an increase in output from all Ministries.

What I'm asking you all is why are you so afraid of doing something different? You are all acting as if the Ministry is working amazingly well at the moment. I'm not attacking Seraph here but the Ministry is no where near the levels of output it once was, Seraph is doing a very good job at rebuilding much better than me but at the end of the day it does still have lower levels of activity than we want or should be expected.

The sense I'm getting at is not that people are against the idea of two separate Ministries but rather there is no political will to do so. No one wants to take that risk because what about if it doesn't work? People are just too afraid to take a risk and try something different. Why not try two Ministries out for a term as a test? If it works awful then I'll hold my hands up and write the legislation to recreate RA again. But it could really help the region and it could have been what we needed? There is no harm in trying it out, I doubt very much that all the FP staff will leave if the Ministry splits and don't come back if we needed to re-join them again.

So why don't you try something different, instead of thinking about the negatives think about the positives and take a risk and take a chance and see what happens otherwise we'll never get anything done again.

I didn't say your idea was bad. I simply said that one should be careful to think splitting the Ministry would be the solution to its problems. It might help, but it also might not help. Having a consistent long-term vision that Ministers actually implement is the only solution that is certain to work. Like I said though, it might or might not be helped by other measures, among them yours.

No I need to say sorry to you here Kris. While writing that last bit I was talking to the region as a whole not just to you. I was aiming for a "what have you got to lose tone" rather than after re-reading my post a rather accusational tone. I'm sorry if I came off as accusing you.

Europeian Ambassador to The South Pacific
Former Local Council Member
Former Minister of Regional Affairs
Former High Court Justice

Reply

Regional affairs and Integration are separate enough.

Sending out a Communications telegram vs doing internal regional stuff

if you have enough manpower you can split it

This is my concern. I feel like we're already spreading ourselves somewhat thin. 

Not to mention we have the delegate, PM and LC all who should be able to pitch in with communication, so there should be plenty of people to help out, if needed.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

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It feels like doing this would be redundant with the other positions that fill the role of communication quite well.

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Seems better to me if the two proposed positions were instead Deputy Ministers appointed by the elected MoRA. Keeps the issues that might happen in the overlap under the guidance of an elected MoRA's vision and gives the MoRA hands and bodys to focus and help on individial areas

Real-life Girls

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Seems better to me if the two proposed positions were instead Deputy Ministers appointed by the elected MoRA. Keeps the issues that might happen in the overlap under the guidance of an elected MoRA's vision and gives the MoRA hands and bodys to focus and help on individial areas

This is essentially what I am doing with my Advisory Council, only I've subdivided even further.

Also, to anyone arguing that these areas are separate, well, whether they are or not, the team of people likely to be interested in helping will be largely the same. In my opinion it is better that they are serving together as part of a united ministry than being split between two potentially competing ones.

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Yahweo usenneo ir varleo, ihraneo jurlaweo hraseu seu, ir jiweveo arladi.

Salma 145:8

translate

The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.
Psalm 145: 8

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