| Voting Rights for WA Nations |
(12-22-2016, 10:54 PM)Belschaft Wrote:(12-22-2016, 10:47 PM)Altmoras Wrote: So anybody can switch WA into TSP and get the same vote as an actually vetted legislator? That's not at all related to what I said, your proposal has absolutely no provisions to protect against vote manipulation by temporarily moving WAs into TSP.
(12-22-2016, 10:54 PM)Belschaft Wrote:(12-22-2016, 10:47 PM)Altmoras Wrote: So anybody can switch WA into TSP and get the same vote as an actually vetted legislator? There is also the fact that a vast majority of nations on gameside won't really care that there is a forumside, or even a government for that matter, it doesn't concern them like we think it does. I know I cant really speak for anyone but myself, but when I first joined NationStates, I did not care about any regional delegate or government. I have gotten a few of my RL friends to join NationStates, and they don't really care about the regional government aspect, they just answer the issues and check stats with other nations. In short, decisions that any government makes, weather its with WA members and legislators or just legislators, wont have any affect on a vast majority of people from what I've seen. The way it works now, is that we can encourage people to join the forums and we can grow our pool of active people, with this proposal, so long as you have a WA, you don't technically need to visit the forums for much. -Griffindor/Ebonhand
-Current Roles/Positions -Legislator 2/24/20- -High Court Justice 6/7/20- -South Pacific Coral Guard 11/17/20- -Minister of Engagement 6/17/22- -Past Roles/Positions -Legislator 7/3/16-4/10/18 -Secretary of State 4/3/20-2/24/21 -Chair of the APC 9/24/16-5/31/17 -Vice-Chair of the APC 6/1/17-4/10/18 -Local Council Member 7/1/17-11/17/17 -Citizen 5/2012-12/2014 and 2/26/16-7/3/2016
Every TSP WA nation has always had the right to resguser for voting, all we require now is signing up for a simple security verification process. Anybody can move a WA into TSP, no matter how friendly or antagonistic their source, nor how much their group would benefit from a mass influx of voters.
(12-23-2016, 01:12 AM)Farengeto Wrote: Every TSP WA nation has always had the right to resguser for voting, all we require now is signing up for a simple security verification process. Anybody can move a WA into TSP, no matter how friendly or antagonistic their source, nor how much their group would benefit from a mass influx of voters. Not just WA but any nation in TSP WA or not may become a legislator. That's how the SPSF can be legislators. Above all else, I hope to be a decent person.
Has Been What's Next? CoA: August 2016-January 2017
Minister of Foreign Affairs: October 2019-June 2020, October 2020- February 2021 (12-22-2016, 10:54 PM)Belschaft Wrote:For us to keep our status we have to vote in most votes, WA members don't have to. Most will only vote on ones they feel like. And most don't even know what they're voting for. It's enough that thy get 20% of the vote. What you're wanting is this massive flood to overpower common sense in some cases. What if it's about voting on CRS members or something like that? Most won't have a clue.(12-22-2016, 10:47 PM)Altmoras Wrote: So anybody can switch WA into TSP and get the same vote as an actually vetted legislator?
I am Zadiner/Zak. Part of Assembly, some other stuff, Founder of some other region.
Hey, I have a bunch of issues. You don't need to care. Emoji of the week: :dodgy:
This will risk our democracy. Not only are we risking the manipulation of it (which many people including me have addressed), but we are risking forum activity and populism overall.
The Gameside won't have an incentive to actually join the forums anymore. And where does the center of government activity happen? Right here. The Gameside does not have the government. To fully give it control of something it does not and cannot have is madness. Besides, when did forumside policies ever affect them much? And do they even care? Why, if I could, I could just resign here since I can just vote with a WA instead! After all, unless I want to run for something, being a legislator and being active is not that much of an incentive anymore, right? It is actually a disadvantage, since I can just have a WA and log in every now and then, instead of actively voting and actually caring. The value of a legislator, a prized position, will be either severely diminished, or destroyed entirely. Do you want that to happen, if we keep giving more and more rights? If they care so much, why not come here? I don't see anything blocking them from doing so. We have a better and more organized system of government. Why should we give that up to them, when they can come here instead? Why give up an objectively supreme system and risk it's ever-lasting value? Another problem I have is populism. A person might come and present a totally one-sided view of an argument, whilst we can discuss it here. If you have mass TGs, or are willing to post non-stop in the RMB, then you can influence poorly-informed WA votes, putting an extreme disadvantage to your opponents. Worst of it all, we cannot override it, since now they can vote as well. This creates a wide window to compete for votes, when voters should make up their damn minds on their own, listening to both sides fairly. The one who controls the communications has it easy. They can influence the poorly-informed and poorly-guided, who have not seen the arguments here, or wish to, but they do not know how. Those who cannot will fail. I love as much freedom as possible, but not at the expense of our stability and forum government overall. There must be a balance of rights, not a flood of it. Our security will be less, and the forum will not have so much incentive anymore, if we decide to do this, and more. Today, 50% of the vote. Tomorrow, the entirety. That is the final goal of this movement. Heed this warning! If we keep giving too much rights to the gameside, we will end up destroying the forum government's purpose, or itself. And here is where we run things. Those who support a forum government, it's time to say: Enough is enough!
Deputy Regional Minister of the Planning and Development Agency(March 8-May 19, 2014)
Local Council Member(April 24-August 11) Court Justice of TSP(August 15-December 7)
Noting that we are unlikely to see any major changes in the legislation or any real compromise I would like to go ahead and motion for a vote.
For official purposes debate will end at 18:44 CDT (-6) on December 27th 2016 Above all else, I hope to be a decent person.
Has Been What's Next? CoA: August 2016-January 2017
Minister of Foreign Affairs: October 2019-June 2020, October 2020- February 2021
I've expressed my views on Discord and on the RMB. In addition to a host of nuanced objections and I don't think this is a great tactic to take.
I would be supportive of increased voting power for the LC or other changes, however.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
As I've said on both Discord and the RMB, there are a variety of models that can be used to improve enfranchisement and make the government more accountable to the regional WA members of TSP - this is just one of them. I've also been talking about a representational model.
Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making
Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator ![[Image: B9ytUsy.png]](https://i.imgur.com/B9ytUsy.png)
I will not be bringing this to vote, as I do not see any prospect of the Assembly agreeing to a direct-voting model at this time. Instead, I will work on draft legislation for a representational model.
Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making
Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator |
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