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Sygian · 02-07-2017, 07:30 PM

(02-07-2017, 02:39 PM)Belschaft Wrote: I think the best approach may be to look at this in terms of branches of government; a prohibition on anyone in TSP's executive branch holding an equivalent post elsewhere, but no restrictions on them serving in a foreign judiciary or legislature.

If we had to adopt any idea, I'd go with this one. But all things considered, I don't think this is necessary. After all, it is up to the people to elect individuals to serve and if they wish to take into account the fact that they may hold office somewhere else, then they should be able to do that, but I don't think any law should restrict what a person runs for.

(02-07-2017, 06:57 PM)Roavin Wrote: Ah.

Personally, I'd like to see our Delegate role restricted even more, and then allow the Delegate to do other offices as they see fit. That's locally.

For foreign entanglements, I think it would be reasonable to restrict dual equivalent cabinet offices - so you can't be MoFA in TSP and somewhere else simultaneously, for example!

Any other suggestions? I'll make a new matrix later.

Same as above.

Escade · 02-07-2017, 07:38 PM

I'm firmly against anyone holding any multiple positions...that leads to concentration of power. We have enough people to hold individual positions.

Delegate has responsbilities related to being the face of the region, etc.

I would also like to argue that holding positions in multiple regions is a conflict of interests and I, for one, think choose one region to be with and let go of your side pieces. Due to the after effects of OBT and such, I would prefer that if you hold any political position in another region you cannot run for office in TSP.

There's enough work to do in one region without adding conflicts of interest and foreign interest to the mix.

Escade

~ Positions Held in TSP ~
Delegate | Vice Delegate
Minister of Regional Affairs, | Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister of Military Affairs
~ The Sparkly One ~

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**Farengeto** · 02-07-2017, 08:21 PM

(02-07-2017, 06:57 PM)Roavin Wrote: Ah.

Personally, I'd like to see our Delegate role restricted even more, and then allow the Delegate to do other offices as they see fit. That's locally.

For foreign entanglements, I think it would be reasonable to restrict dual equivalent cabinet offices - so you can't be MoFA in TSP and somewhere else simultaneously, for example!

Any other suggestions? I'll make a new matrix later.

I'm against any kind of dual office from the Delegate. The problem for we is that no matter how much we regulate it the delegate has all the real power in the region. They can ban who they want, dismiss and replace all ROs, try to dissolve the governement. The delegate doesn't need more control.

**Belschaft** · 02-19-2017, 03:51 PM

Ok, further to previous discussions here is a new version of the language;

Quote:7. Separation of Powers

(1) The Coalition's government consists of three branches; Executive, Judicial and Legislative, and the offices of such;
a. The Executive branch consists of the Delegate, Prime Minister and Cabinet Ministers, and their designated deputies.
b. The Judicial branch consists of the Permanent Justice, and serving temporary or appellate Justices.
c. The Legislative branch consists of the Chair of the Assembly and their designated deputies, and Local Council members.

(2) It is not permitted for any individual to hold more than one office within the Coalitions government.

(3) It is permitted to seek election or appointment to new office whilst holding an existing office.

(4) Election or appointment to a new office constitutes explicit resignation of an existing office.

(5) Members of the Coalition's Executive branch may not hold any equivalent office in a foreign region or organisation.

I've split the list of TSP government offices into three branches, and limited the "entanglements" clause (5) to the executive branch.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

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(This post was last modified: 02-19-2017, 09:26 PM by Belschaft.)

**Griffindor** · 02-19-2017, 07:48 PM

I can agree to that.

-Griffindor/Ebonhand
-Current Roles/Positions
-Legislator 2/24/20-
-High Court Justice 6/7/20-
-South Pacific Coral Guard 11/17/20-
-Minister of Engagement 6/17/22-

-Past Roles/Positions
-Legislator 7/3/16-4/10/18
-Secretary of State 4/3/20-2/24/21
-Chair of the APC 9/24/16-5/31/17
-Vice-Chair of the APC 6/1/17-4/10/18
-Local Council Member 7/1/17-11/17/17
-Citizen 5/2012-12/2014 and 2/26/16-7/3/2016

***Roavin*** · 02-19-2017, 08:56 PM

Hm, still not quite happy with 5. Yes, we want to discourage cosmopolitanism, but that still bunches together things that are separate - besides, "any office" is extremely vague.

Let's take Seraph as our MoRA as an example.
Say on the side he got interested in raiding. Let's also suppose he was really good at it and got promoted to Khalif in LWU. Would he be in violation of Section 5, then?
Suppose he was deputy editor of the Lazarene Gazette?
What if he was a roleplay moderator in TNP?

etc.etc.etc.

~~Cormac~~ · 02-19-2017, 09:11 PM

To use another example that he probably didn't want to use himself, is there a problem with Roavin serving simultaneously as First Warden of the Grey Wardens and Minister of Regional Affairs? There might -- or might not -- be a problem with him serving in other executive offices, but not that one.

Personally, I've always been in favor of letting voters make these conflict of interest decisions instead of trying to apply a universal standard to cases that may be very different. Voters can determine whether holding a particular office elsewhere is in conflict with holding a particular elected office here.

This gets even more problematic in that the same standard would also apply to deputies, which just doesn't seem necessary. The Minister should be able to manage any conflicts of interest among their deputies. We don't want to legislate our way into having too few people for important roles. I'm actually concerned that including deputies in this legislation at all may be too restrictive.

I'm fine with the rest of the language.

(This post was last modified: 02-19-2017, 09:19 PM by Cormac.)

Escade · 02-19-2017, 09:12 PM

Well, I think in this case it can be amended to disclosure. Members must disclose any offices held in any other regions to the cabinet and assembly?

Escade

~ Positions Held in TSP ~
Delegate | Vice Delegate
Minister of Regional Affairs, | Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister of Military Affairs
~ The Sparkly One ~

My Pinterest

~~Cormac~~ · 02-19-2017, 09:21 PM

(02-19-2017, 09:12 PM)Escade Wrote: Well, I think in this case it can be amended to disclosure. Members must disclose any offices held in any other regions to the cabinet and assembly?

I think that would be sufficient. Do we not already have that?

**Belschaft** · 02-19-2017, 09:25 PM

Sorry, there's a typo/ommision of the word "equivalent" there; the language isn't meant to be that broad. Corrected.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

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