Users browsing this thread:

***Roavin*** · 04-04-2017, 05:05 AM

Can somebody post a TL;DR of our relationship with Europeia?

~~Cormac~~ · 04-04-2017, 06:05 AM

(04-03-2017, 10:17 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote: If I may ask, what exactly will it take to "make things right" with Europeia? I ask because, at this point, it feels like, whatever we do, it's not enough. We get along just fine with Lazarus and the Rejected Realms, seem to have decent relations with Spiritus and the North Pacific, but for some reason things are always strained with Europeia. What exactly will it take?

We also spend significantly more time and effort on most of the alliances you mentioned. It's been a year and a half since we held a festival with Europeia. We spend more time militarily working with non-allies like the Grey Wardens and, of all people, the New Pacific Order, than we do working with Europeia. When we work with the NPO, it's usually on anti-fascist operations we could be conducting via CAIN, but aren't. Instead we're conducting those operations through a Discord server called "Ruining Nazi Sandcastles," which seems to primarily be spearheaded by TGW and the NPO.

So to answer your question -- what exactly will it take to improve relations with Europeia? -- a good start might be a bit more than the almost nothing we have been doing. And I say that as someone who doesn't even like Europeia, but who understands the value of that alliance for TSP.

Tying this back into the CAIN discussion, there can be little question that when our alliance with Europeia is already weaker than it should be because it has been neglected, withdrawing from CAIN with only vague reasoning is only going to further weaken our alliance with Europeia. CAIN has been primarily Europeia's project all along. If CAIN fails, its failure is primarily going to be perceived as Europeia's failure. How would we feel if, for example, TSP initiated a multi-regional cultural project, and if Europeia, having joined that project, then withdrew for extremely ill-defined reasons at the first sign of trouble? I think it's safe to say we wouldn't be very happy about it. We would expect our ally to work with us to make a mutual project work. We would feel slighted if they withdrew and left the failure of the project in our lap. And that is exactly what we would be doing to Europeia by withdrawing from CAIN.

Europeia is a highly political region. A project like CAIN is the kind of project that is of the utmost importance to them, and we need to recognize when a project is important to our ally and do our best to support them -- particularly when we have already agreed to participate in and support that project. It would not be at all supportive to withdraw from the project, possibly leading a domino effect of withdrawals because we're a Feeder, for no particular reason.

(This post was last modified: 04-04-2017, 06:22 AM by Cormac.)

***Kris Kringle*** · 04-04-2017, 09:53 AM

I won't let you move on without accepting the fact that the HoC clip I linked was perfect for my post. :P

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System

**Belschaft** · 04-04-2017, 12:10 PM

My previous suggestion in regards to withdrawing from CAIN stemmed largely from treaty changes that would have fundamentally altered the organisation and the nature of TSP's relationship with it. Considering that this is no longer being considered, I'm largely apathetic towards it.

It essentially comes down to a simple cost/benefit analysis, as Cormac has laid out. So long as remaining in CAIN doesn't cost us anything, whilst producing some benefit for us - in this case, it helps our relationships with several existing allies and creates avenues to develop new relationships with non-allies - it's in our best interest to do so.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

PREVIOUS ROLES

~~Cormac~~ · 04-05-2017, 08:54 PM

This should be a full mark-up of the changes to the CAIN Charter found in the amendment in the OP.

CAIN Mark-Up

(This post was last modified: 04-05-2017, 08:57 PM by Cormac.)

**Rebeltopia** · 04-06-2017, 07:59 AM

I'll have to view this when I get to a PC.

--images suck on mobile/tapatalk--

Sent from my phone using Tapatalk. So typos may be a'plenty...

"...if you're normal, the crowd will accept you. But if you're deranged, the crowd will make you their leader." - Christopher Titus
Deranged in NS since 2011

One and ONLY minion of LadyRebels
The OUTRAGEOUS CRAZY other half of LadyElysium

POSITIONS! POSITIONS, EVERYONE!!

Quotes

***Tsunamy*** · 04-06-2017, 10:35 AM

I for one have always liked Europeia. Seeing as this is their pet project, I'm inclined to support it/them. (Thanks for pointing that our Cormac).

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

Omega · 04-06-2017, 10:43 AM

I feel inclined to note that CAIN is an organization where many regions we otherwise would not work with come together to work toward one goal. I think we need to remain dedicated to this organization to help show the rest of NS that we may not be allied with that we believe in cooperation.

Above all else, I hope to be a decent person.
Has Been
What's Next?

CoA: August 2016-January 2017
Minister of Foreign Affairs: October 2019-June 2020, October 2020- February 2021

Tim · 04-07-2017, 10:43 AM

I think the changes to the treaty are positive ones, and would support continuing to remain a signatory of CAIN.

[Image: Lj1SunN.png]
Formerly Banned For Still Unspecified "OOC Toxicity"

Ausstan · 04-09-2017, 02:56 AM

(04-06-2017, 10:35 AM)Tsunamy Wrote: I for one have always liked Europeia. Seeing as this is their pet project, I'm inclined to support it/them. (Thanks for pointing that our Cormac).

This is, as far as I can remember, the one thing I haven't agreed with you for. Sure, I have nothing against Europeia, but, like a few have already said, our ties with Europeia aren't a justification for joining CAIN. I know I am relatively new to NS gameplay, but in my opinion it is not doing much good across NS. I am entirely against it. I really like this region, but if there was one thing I would change, it is CAIN.

I know I am going to get screamed at for this by just about everyone, but CAIN hasn't exactly done anything to make me think, wow, these guys are great blokes. Despite this, they have done a lot to make me think they are absolutely useless.

John Hills- President of Ausstan

(This post was last modified: 04-09-2017, 02:56 AM by Ausstan.)