| Roavin's Gameplay Musings | Delegate vs. Government Supremacy |
Figured I should put them in one place.
Comments and discussion encouraged! ![[Image: XXPV74Y.png?1]](https://i.imgur.com/XXPV74Y.png?1)
Is the South Pacific owned and operated by the Grey Wardens?
If you've read the Gameplay forum recently, you'd be inclined to think so. TSP and TGW deny it, others just categorically state it as a fact. What gets less coverage, however, is that there is another such pair of regions with a similar reputation, just amongst a different crowd - Balder and the Land of Kings and Emperors. The similarities are glaring. In both cases, the two regions are technically of different alignments but the way they practice it is that the things they do on the battle field often match up. In both cases, there is a high-profile individual holding a high executive position in both regions (Onderkelkia in the case of Balder/LKE, myself in the case of TSP/TGW). In both cases, there is some cross-membership (4 TSP/TGW cross-members, probably a similar amount between Balder and LKE). And in both cases, it's almost a running gag amongst the respective enemies that one of the regions (the UCR in both cases) de facto controls the other (the GCR). You've seen it plenty here on GP for TGW/TSP right now, but it happens just as much off-site, and occasionally on GP, by the more defender-y crowd with respect to Balder/LKE. So, what's the truth here? Does it hold for one or not the other? Are both subverted? Neither? I'd wager that the truth is rather in the middle - there are sociological and cultural aspects at play here, and it's a totally benign thing. I know that there isn't a concerted effort by TGW to control or influence TSP, and I have no reason to believe that there would be such a concerted effort by LKE to control or influence Balder either. Instead, the respective other region is liked and accepted, and people hailing from one region are accepted warmly by the other. It should be intuitively clear that this is conducive to some amount of cross-membership, and even that these regions may end up sharing high-ranking leaders! The problem with that explanation is that it's perfectly reasonable and therefore woefully boring for NationStates Gameplay. Therefore: Omg, LKE like totally controls Balder and stuff!
Delegate Supremacy vs. Government Supremacy
It's the same old argument, really. A: "No, the Delegate is supreme!" B: "No, Delegate is a servant to the region!" A: "No, you're ignoring game mechanics!" B: "No, you're being reductionist!" A: "No, you're setting endorsement policy by oligarchcal fiat and thereby subverting the one true democracy!" B: "No, you're ignoring inherent sociological factors, the power granted inherently subverts democracy of that kind!" ...etc... Person A is a Delegate Supremacist, that is somebody who believes that the Delegate of a region has the say over all matters irrespective of any other governance (based on off-site forums or whatever else). Person B is not a Delegate Supremacist; I'll call them (for lack of a better term) "Government Supremacist". They believe that the Delegate is not supreme but rather that the government, usually established on an off-site forum, is supreme. These two camps have been arguing and disagreeing since 2003. Here's my opinion. If you're a Delegate Supremacist, you're wrong. If you're a Government Supremacist, you're also wrong. The Pacific has been operating under a Delegate Supremacy paradigm since at least August 2003 (probably before that too). The South Pacific has been operating under a Government Supremacy paradigm since early June 2003 (starting with the founding of the Coalition). The paradigms are deeply entrenched in regional culture in both cases. Both have their pros and cons, and both have worked quite well for them. TWP and TNP are another pair of regions for which the respective paradigm is entrenched and long-seated and has worked well for them.
If you're a fundamentalist Delegate Supremacist or Government Supremacist, then all I can say is that you are (willfully or not) ignorant of historical context that shows that you're just as much wrong about one side as you are right about the other side. These are (mutually exclusive) paradigms for operating a founderless region, each with their pros and cons, nothing more. These aren't fucking religions. 
TGW and TSP are intertwined, perhaps too much so, but that isn't a bad thing. TGW is a great region, even if I don't always agree with them.
Signed,
![[Image: tspsig.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/323623854591180801/329130815340412930/tspsig.png) Positions:
Legislator of The South Pacific King of Machina, Defence Realm of Illuminati Alliance Citizen of The East Pacific Former Positions:
Overlord of Masterz
Seargant of HYDRA Talon of Firehehlm Munifiex of The Roman Empire ![[Image: rv43j5bZ3p1Rs0A01odvThXy-TLzgwlhUTl_mY9E...66-h654-rw]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rv43j5bZ3p1Rs0A01odvThXy-TLzgwlhUTl_mY9EGkiEks-YKf31JOYzp7pyzeivAZlE_6KpcL0UZes=w1366-h654-rw)
Not nearly as intertwined as general GP rhetoric likes to imply though.
You mean TSP isn't a vassal state that has been subverted from within by defender conspirators?
 Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System
No, unfortunately we're all just a bunch of loyal feederites
On this topic:
REVEALING stats from TSP's last poll Is Roavin subverting The South Pacific? At first sight, everything seems normal. No: 32 Combined Yes (TSP or TGW): 21 Maybe: 4 But this begins to unravel once we make some breakdowns WA only No: 5 Combined Yes: 11 Maybe: 2 Influence - Excluding none and very low which are obvious puppets No: 6 Combined Yes: 21 Maybe: 3 Population - 1 billion and above No: 4 Combined Yes: 17 Maybe: 3 --- "Roavin Vote Stacked [number]" inflated the no vote, while I assume (  ) everyone else is trolling.
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