| Repeal CAIN Treaty |
(11-16-2017, 02:55 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: Given that the Cabinet has withdrawn its intent to repeal the treaty, I don’t believe it would be allowed under the Treaties Act to bring this vote to the floor. I would say I agree, but the 5 days officaly ended before Tim said the Cabinet was changing's mind. Therefore there is an argument to be made that this has to go to a vote. The Cabinet signified it's wish to end a treaty, starting a discussion which has lasted for at least five days and therefore a vote could happen. Ultimately I would say I agree with you, but there is definitely a case for the other side. At the very least the Cabinet should notify the Assembly why it is pausing proceeings even if they do so without revealing classified info. Europeian Ambassador to The South Pacific
Former Local Council Member Former Minister of Regional Affairs Former High Court Justice
I will not be putting this up to vote unless & until the Cabinet requests it. The Treaties Act clearly places the prerogative for repealing treaties with the Cabinet, and thus it's my belief that if the Cabinet withdraws their request, the Assembly isn't within its authority to continue on with a vote.
Furthermore, the Treaties Act doesn't stipulate that a vote must happen exactly after five days of debate. Merely that there be at least five days. The Minister for Foreign Affairs has said that there are significant developments within the alliance, so it would be a good idea for the Assembly to hear what those developments are. I imagine there's an important reason why the Cabinet doesn't want to go forward with repeal right now. Tim will probably be along sometime today or tomorrow to tell us?
How about we wait until Tim comes back, and unless he has a specific reason that we should not vote to withdraw, we bring the legislation to the floor, and vote on it. The cabinet brought it before the legislature, and there was clear support for withdrawal of the treaty, and the only reason that I can think of that it didn't get voted on was the COA elections, and therefore, if those hadn't been taking place, this would have gone to vote already. I think that it needs to go to vote.
Aav Verinhall
They/Them (11-15-2017, 08:29 PM)Belschaft Wrote: Can the cabinet provide more details? Yes. There are internal discussions currently happening regarding the official shutting down of the CAIN Alliance. Given that those have progressed quickly, and we're already voting to shut it down, it would look to be in bad form for us to then withdraw before that official shut down - given that we're the ones who proposed it and said we will wait to vote on it internally until after a CAIN Signatory Vote. That is what we are doing. Once that vote ends, we intend to pass our own repeal. As the alliance will be functionally dead should the Signatory Vote pass, it will mostly be a matter of cleaning up remaining paperwork. (11-16-2017, 07:43 PM)Aav Whitehall Wrote: How about we wait until Tim comes back, and unless he has a specific reason that we should not vote to withdraw, we bring the legislation to the floor, and vote on it. The cabinet brought it before the legislature, and there was clear support for withdrawal of the treaty, and the only reason that I can think of that it didn't get voted on was the COA elections, and therefore, if those hadn't been taking place, this would have gone to vote already. I think that it needs to go to vote. The Cabinet has made clear we are not interested in seeing this go to vote yet. It would not be conducive to a prosperous foreign strategy or image for the Coalition abroad, and the Treaties Act clearly places the prerogative on us to dictate that matter. I can imagine you won't die if you have to wait 2-3 more days to vote on this.
I can understand the cabinets decision to wait. As such, I do not have a problem with waiting a few days extra.
-Griffindor/Ebonhand
-Current Roles/Positions -Legislator 2/24/20- -High Court Justice 6/7/20- -South Pacific Coral Guard 11/17/20- -Minister of Engagement 6/17/22- -Past Roles/Positions -Legislator 7/3/16-4/10/18 -Secretary of State 4/3/20-2/24/21 -Chair of the APC 9/24/16-5/31/17 -Vice-Chair of the APC 6/1/17-4/10/18 -Local Council Member 7/1/17-11/17/17 -Citizen 5/2012-12/2014 and 2/26/16-7/3/2016
CAIN is officially disbanded.
Given that, the Cabinet requests the Chair now move forward with the vote to withdraw from CAIN once the needed motions and seconds have been attained. Towards that purpose, I motion to vote.
I second Tim's motion.
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Let's get this over with!
-Griffindor/Ebonhand
-Current Roles/Positions -Legislator 2/24/20- -High Court Justice 6/7/20- -South Pacific Coral Guard 11/17/20- -Minister of Engagement 6/17/22- -Past Roles/Positions -Legislator 7/3/16-4/10/18 -Secretary of State 4/3/20-2/24/21 -Chair of the APC 9/24/16-5/31/17 -Vice-Chair of the APC 6/1/17-4/10/18 -Local Council Member 7/1/17-11/17/17 -Citizen 5/2012-12/2014 and 2/26/16-7/3/2016
According to the Treaties Act, Section 2.2, if the Cabinet has received notice from the other signatories that the treaty is dissolved on their end, then it’s automatically dissolved on ours too. So there’s really no need to vote on this, unless you guys want a symbolic vote!
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My understanding of the law and the terms of CAIN aligns with Glen's here; whilst the Cabinet would not have had the power to withdraw TSP from CAIN without a vote here, it does have the power to vote for CAIN's own dissolution and, subject to such a vote passing and being ratified legally by a sufficient number of other signatories, no vote is required.
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