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**Belschaft** · 01-04-2019, 07:53 AM

It’s not a question of having “reason to believe” that people have not understood approval voting in the past - it’s a fact, as indicated by a majority of people approving all the candidates which is the equivalent of not voting.

@Pronoun - that’s an interesting article, but I wouldn’t trust it’s conclusions - it’s operating from several faulty premises, primarily relating to voter behaviour.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
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***sandaoguo*** · 01-04-2019, 09:36 AM

But that’s kind of their choice, isn’t it? That doesn’t point to not understanding the purpose. If someone approves of all candidates, then that means they don’t care who ultimately wins. Whether they express that through approving of all or not voting at all is kind of immaterial.

Did anyone ever say “I voted for everyone because I didn’t understand the system”? Given our community, it’s highly likely all the candidates were liked.

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(This post was last modified: 01-04-2019, 09:38 AM by sandaoguo.)

**Rebeltopia** · 01-04-2019, 10:28 AM

I disagree, Glen. We've used a preferential voting method for so long, when it comes to using Approval, nobody remembers and just lists their candidates in their preferred order. And thats the voters fault for not understanding what elections use which methods. We need to make it specifically clear that listing order doesnt matter, and anyone listed (above RON) is first equal, and those listed below RON are not counted.

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***Tsunamy*** · 01-04-2019, 10:46 AM

I think we can ask the EC to craft a brief statement explaining "Approval Voting." Hell — I'll even write it, if we like, but I can't see us using Approval Voting in the near future without the EC intricately explaining it. If people don't pay attention, well then ... that's on them?

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**Belschaft** · 01-04-2019, 11:46 AM

The failure of approval to allow for preferences to be expressed is my main problem, really. It’s not unusual for people to be okay with multiple candidates potentially winning, but have a clear preference for a particular candidate or candidates over the others.

As I’ve said many, many times before - there is no “perfect” electoral system, just systems that make particular outcomes more or less likely and favour certain types of candidates.

If there is a consensus that we would prefer “unobjectionable” candidates with broad but potentially shallow bases support to be favoured for the Delegacy, this is a change that will achieve that. Personally I still feel that we should be favouring candidates who are most people’s first choice.

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Nakari · 01-04-2019, 11:50 AM

Allowing people to express approval while still being able to express preference within that sounds like a job for range voting :3

**Belschaft** · 01-04-2019, 01:05 PM

In theory yes, but not in practice. Humans are not perfectly rational actors, and range/score voting is one of those electoral systems that don't function as advertised as a result.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
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**Rebeltopia** · 01-04-2019, 02:19 PM

if we're bastardizing IRV curently, why not just come up with our own... Something like "List your first 2 (or whatever) number of candidates in order, then all that you'd approve. leave out all those who you dont approve. Then we use M-IRV for the 1st candidate, and approval for the 2nd.

"...if you're normal, the crowd will accept you. But if you're deranged, the crowd will make you their leader." - Christopher Titus
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**Belschaft** · 01-04-2019, 04:39 PM

That sounds hideously confusing. I cannot emphasise enough the importance of simplicity when choosing an electoral system.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

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***Roavin*** · 01-04-2019, 05:10 PM

In a way, it'd be peak TSP, though. Tounge