Although DM campaigning is a legitimate concern that a lot of us have, we would still have to accept it as a part of our political life. It is very admirable of North Prarie to be raising this issue in the Assembly, however there is little to none that we can do in terms of regulating this. The fact that it takes a lot of time to enforce these rules is not the biggest issue. The biggest issue here is, as Kurnugia mentioned before, that it directly contradicts the rights and freedoms we all have as South Pacificans. 

To the best of my knowledge, handing over private messages would involve legal and privacy issues. The only way one can have access to those messages is through a court subpoena, which requires the approval of two Justices (see Section 5, Article 3 of the Judicial Act). Along with that, in order to sue them, you need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (probable cause) that they have committed a crime. That is even more difficult as you would have to monitor their actions and those of others for quite a long time so as to discover any suspicious pattern.

Frankly, it's not that hard. It'd be the same as a bribery charge. I wasn't asked permission when Nakari shared my private dms in court ??‍♂️

Midwesterner. Political nerd. Chipotle enthusiast. 
Minister of Culture of the South Pacific // Former Prime Minister

(This post was last modified: 04-06-2019, 12:57 AM by North Prarie.)

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Considering that Forumside dudes tend to not be clueless, I doubt this would do anything useful Forumside. Gameside, though, this could probably work so we don't have *that* again.

How does the LC plan to regulate if these rules were to be applied to the gameside? Certainly it would be much harder since the population's much larger.

All of this wouldn't apply to the LC though, would it? I thought they regulate their own elections.

Former Associate Justice of the High Court of the South Pacific (4 December 2019 to 5 February 2021)

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I'm not sure how Concrete Slab "DM'd his way onto the LC". 

In the last election I only message people when they voted for me, thanking them for their vote, and letting them know that they would likely receive in game telegrams asking them to change their vote, and avoid playing vote trading games and just vote their conscience, and after I won the first round I again TG'd the nations that voted for me, thanked them, and endorsed Slab and Auphelia
 

Would such telegrams be considered illegal under such a proposal?  And seriously how would anyone enforce this game side?

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Legislator | Local Councilor | Aspiring TSP Curmudgeon
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Although DM campaigning is a legitimate concern that a lot of us have, we would still have to accept it as a part of our political life. It is very admirable of North Prarie to be raising this issue in the Assembly, however there is little to none that we can do in terms of regulating this. The fact that it takes a lot of time to enforce these rules is not the biggest issue. The biggest issue here is, as Kurnugia mentioned before, that it directly contradicts the rights and freedoms we all have as South Pacificans. 

To the best of my knowledge, handing over private messages would involve legal and privacy issues. The only way one can have access to those messages is through a court subpoena, which requires the approval of two Justices (see Section 5, Article 3 of the Judicial Act). Along with that, in order to sue them, you need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (probable cause) that they have committed a crime. That is even more difficult as you would have to monitor their actions and those of others for quite a long time so as to discover any suspicious pattern.

Frankly, it's not that hard. It'd be the same as a bribery charge. I wasn't asked permission when Nakari shared my private dms in court ??‍♂️ 

Bribeing is also far more malicious than mere campaigning. Leaking always has to be proportional. Also, I would like a response to my previous post.

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So, this type of proposal comes up from time to time. And, I'm always on the fence about it, but normally it comes down to a practicality situation. How can we possibly enforce it fairly?

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

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I am rather unsure about this bill. While I think the bill itself is well-intentioned, I suspect the word 'accessible' is a wrong choice. Nat and Rebs have both previously touched on the subject but DMs and TGs are technically accessible to every member. Perhaps a change to 'utilised' would be more appropriate?

Considering that Forumside dudes tend to not be clueless, I doubt this would do anything useful Forumside. Gameside, though, this could probably work so we don't have *that* again.

How does the LC plan to regulate if these rules were to be applied to the gameside? Certainly it would be much harder since the population's much larger.

All of this wouldn't apply to the LC though, would it? I thought they regulate their own elections.

I believe you are correct. The LC has its own laws.

Edit: I am being really pedantic here ... but could the OP please be edited to the following? (I changed the dashes to period marks ... and added a period to the last sentence of the Criminal Code amendment.)

Click to view

Elections Act
An act establishing elections for office

...

2. Electoral System

...

(5) It is not permitted to seek to influence a voter's preference by any means not accessible to every eligible voter. 

Legislative Procedure Act
An Act to define the procedural rules of the Assembly​​​​​​​

1. Legislative Rules

...

(8) It is not permitted to seek to influence an Assembly member's preference on an Assembly vote by any means not accesible to every Assembly member.

Criminal Code

An act laying out crimes against the Coalition and their punishments​​​​​​​

1. Crimes

...

(14) Personal Influencing shall be defined as influencing a voter or assembly member's preference by means not accesible to every voter or assembly member.​​​​​​​

(This post was last modified: 04-06-2019, 09:55 AM by Amerion.)

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Ok; looks like the definitions may be a bit fuzzy; maybe this? Just brainstorming.

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Elections Act
An act establishing elections for office

2. Electoral System

...

(5) It is not permitted to intend to influence a voter's preference by any means not accessible to every eligible voter. 

Legislative Procedure Act
An Act to define the procedural rules of the Assembly​​​​​​

1. Legislative Rules

...

(8) It is not permitted to intend to influence an Assembly member's preference on an Assembly vote by any means not accesible to every Assembly member.

Criminal Code

An act laying out crimes against the Coalition and their punishments

1. Crimes

...

(14) Personal Influencing shall be defined as influencing a voter or assembly member's preference by means not accessible to every voter or assembly member.

 
I'm open to compromise here; my goal is to stop people using DM campaigning to get their way without limiting freedoms of speech or expression.

Midwesterner. Political nerd. Chipotle enthusiast. 
Minister of Culture of the South Pacific // Former Prime Minister

(This post was last modified: 04-06-2019, 02:10 PM by North Prarie.)

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I could see myself supporting this if it's enforceable and not a real-world privacy issue.

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I fully support this, although I´m not sure how it would be enforced.

AIDENFIEELD

Legislator in TSP | Active User of the RMB | Former Local Councillor | Member of The Ministry Of Regional Affairs

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It’s enforceable on the basis that if you TG someone they might report you, put I’m not sure if this is practical or a good idea - I don’t think banning private conversations about elections is a good idea, which this effectively does. If I was running for Delegate and contacted Tsu asking for his support I would be in breach of this.

I think what people want to ban is people TG’ing people they don’t know, right? So you wouldn’t be able to TG a hundred random WA nations asking them to vote for you but could contact people you knew via DM/PM/TG to ask for their support.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

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(This post was last modified: 04-09-2019, 08:52 AM by Belschaft.)

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