The South Pacific

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To get you people talking, I might as well bring this discussion back to light: should the Cabinet be elected or appointed? If elected, great, no changes; if appointed, I propose the following:

Appointment

THE CHARTER OF THE SOUTH PACIFIC

[...]

VI. THE EXECUTIVE

[...]

Elections

(6) Executive Prime Minister elections will be held every four months, where the Prime Minister and all Cabinet positions will be up for election.

(7) The date, time, and manner of elections will be set by the Assembly in a law.

(8) Ministers of the Cabinet will be appointed by the elected Prime Minister. The outgoing Ministers will maintain their offices until replaced.

Minister of Culture

(8) (9) The Minister of Culture will be responsible for supporting the roleplay community and organizing regional cultural activities, events, and exchanges.

Minister of Engagement

(9) (10) The Minister of Engagement will be responsible for recruiting and integrating new players into the Coalition's government and community, maintaining public infrastructure such as dispatches and other guides, setting unified presentation standards, and providing graphics to the government and citizens of the Coalition.

Minister of Media

(10) (11) The Minister of Media will be responsible for overseeing the regular publication of public media, including news content, in the South Pacific.

Minister of Foreign Affairs

(11) (12) The Minister of Foreign Affairs will be the Coalition’s chief diplomat. They will be responsible for establishing the government’s foreign policy program, communicating with allies, and coordinating with the military on foreign policy priorities when necessary.

(12) (13) The Minister of Foreign Affairs holds the sole power to initiate treaty negotiations with other regions, groups, and organizations, but may designate officers to handle those negotiations. Upon completion of a treaty negotiation, the Minister must present it to the full executive for majority approval, before submitting it to the Assembly for ratification.

(13) (14) The Minister of Foreign Affairs will be responsible for establishing standards for the creation and maintenance of consulates and embassies.

Minister of Defense

(14) (15) The Minister of Defense will be the civilian leader of the armed forces of the Coalition, the South Pacific Special Forces. In conjunction with a group of Generals, the Minister of Defense will be responsible for the defense of the Coalition, building military activity, and conducting military operations.

(15) (16) The Minister of Defense may elect to establish an intelligence office, in equal coordination with the Council on Regional Security.

Executive Authorities

(16) (17) The executive may exercise the collective authority of executive orders, by unanimous consent among the Prime Minister and Cabinet ministers. Executive orders may only be issued to address an immediate and pressing issue created by ambiguity or holes in a particular law, which will immediately have the effect of law.

(17) (18) Upon declaring an executive order, the order will be presented automatically to the Assembly for three days of debate, followed by a vote according to legislative rules, where it will expire and its effects shall be reversed if the Assembly does not incorporate it into law.

(18) (19) The Prime Minister, Cabinet ministers, and other executive offices may elect to appoint deputies and advisors, who will be considered junior members of their respective offices, but will not have voting rights in any executive decision.

[...]

Elections Act

[...]

4. Offices of the Cabinet Office of the Prime Minister

(1) On the first of every February, June and October, the Assembly will convene to elect the Prime Minister and the Cabinet.
a. After the first 4 days of the election period, during which legislators may declare their candidacy and campaign for only one position, and a campaign-only period of two days, where candidates may campaign and the Assembly will debate the merits of their platforms, the Assembly will vote for 3 days.
b. For each position, tThe respective winner, as decided using Instant-Runoff Voting, will be declared the Prime Minister-elect by the Election Commissioner.

(2) The terms for the incoming Prime Minister and Cabinet ministers will begin the week after elections. Before this inauguration, any and all election-related disputes must be settled. The outgoing Prime Minister and Cabinet ministers will maintain their offices until then.

[...]

However, I would also like to propose my compromise: the Cabinet Ministers be appointed with the confidence of the Assembly. This could either have elections de jure or de facto, or be removals-only. I have decided to go with the former de jure, but feel free to argue otherwise. This compromise in theory will: a) give the P.M. a stronger grip on the Cabinet, and b) still give the Assembly the right to choose Cabinet Ministers, albeit via confirmation rather than election. To keep Assembly-control, we could have specific motions of no confidence for Cabinet Ministers, and maybe make them easier with a simple majority rather than a supermajority vote?

Confirmation

THE CHARTER OF THE SOUTH PACIFIC

[...]

VI. THE EXECUTIVE

[...]

Elections

(6) Executive Prime Minister elections will be held every four months, where the Prime Minister and all Cabinet positions will be up for election.

(7) The date, time, and manner of elections will be set by the Assembly in a law.

(8) Ministers of the Cabinet will be appointed by the elected Prime Minister and be confirmed by the Assembly with a simple majority vote. The outgoing Ministers will keep maintain offices until replaced.

Minister of Culture

(8) (9) The Minister of Culture will be responsible for supporting the roleplay community and organizing regional cultural activities, events, and exchanges.

Minister of Engagement

(9) (10) The Minister of Engagement will be responsible for recruiting and integrating new players into the Coalition's government and community, maintaining public infrastructure such as dispatches and other guides, setting unified presentation standards, and providing graphics to the government and citizens of the Coalition.

Minister of Media

(10) (11) The Minister of Media will be responsible for overseeing the regular publication of public media, including news content, in the South Pacific.

Minister of Foreign Affairs

(11) (12) The Minister of Foreign Affairs will be the Coalition’s chief diplomat. They will be responsible for establishing the government’s foreign policy program, communicating with allies, and coordinating with the military on foreign policy priorities when necessary.

(12) (13) The Minister of Foreign Affairs holds the sole power to initiate treaty negotiations with other regions, groups, and organizations, but may designate officers to handle those negotiations. Upon completion of a treaty negotiation, the Minister must present it to the full executive for majority approval, before submitting it to the Assembly for ratification.

(13) (14) The Minister of Foreign Affairs will be responsible for establishing standards for the creation and maintenance of consulates and embassies.

Minister of Defense

(14) (15) The Minister of Defense will be the civilian leader of the armed forces of the Coalition, the South Pacific Special Forces. In conjunction with a group of Generals, the Minister of Defense will be responsible for the defense of the Coalition, building military activity, and conducting military operations.

(15) (16) The Minister of Defense may elect to establish an intelligence office, in equal coordination with the Council on Regional Security.

Executive Authorities

(16) (17) The executive may exercise the collective authority of executive orders, by unanimous consent among the Prime Minister and Cabinet ministers. Executive orders may only be issued to address an immediate and pressing issue created by ambiguity or holes in a particular law, which will immediately have the effect of law.

(17) (18) Upon declaring an executive order, the order will be presented automatically to the Assembly for three days of debate, followed by a vote according to legislative rules, where it will expire and its effects shall be reversed if the Assembly does not incorporate it into law.

(18) (19) The Prime Minister, Cabinet ministers, and other executive offices may elect to appoint deputies and advisors, who will be considered junior members of their respective offices, but will not have voting rights in any executive decision.

[...]

Elections Act

[...]

4. Offices of the Cabinet Office of the Prime Minister

(1) On the first of every February, June and October, the Assembly will convene to elect the Prime Minister and the Cabinet.
a. After the first 4 days of the election period, during which legislators may declare their candidacy and campaign for only one position, and a campaign-only period of two days, where candidates may campaign and the Assembly will debate the merits of their platforms, the Assembly will vote for 3 days.
b. For each position, tThe respective winner, as decided using Instant-Runoff Voting, will be declared the Prime Minister-elect by the Election Commissioner.

(2) The terms for the incoming Prime Minister and Cabinet ministers will begin the week after elections. Before this inauguration, any and all election-related disputes must be settled. The outgoing Prime Minister and Cabinet ministers will maintain their offices until then.
[...]

So, in conclusion: election, appointment, or confirmation?

Every so often this idea gets floated. There are some merits to it, but I also think there is a large concentration of power within the hands of the prime minister. I'm not going to argue against it only to say that, to me, it seems easier to start/sustain a coup when you have control over the majority of the government.

(04-09-2022, 04:42 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: [ -> ]Every so often this idea gets floated. There are some merits to it, but I also think there is a large concentration of power within the hands of the prime minister. I'm not going to argue against it only to say that, to me, it seems easier to start/sustain a coup when you have control over the majority of the government.

I get the concept, but in practice under our current system it doesn't seem the most applicable. Neither the Cabinet, nor the PM, carry additional endorsements or influence in the region that would enable them to coup, unless also appointed members of the CRS. The Delegate and CRS hold the keys to the kingdom when it comes to executing a coup. Making it so the PM gets to pick the Minister of Engagement, neither of whom are carrying above-endo cap endorsements in the on-site region, doesn't seem to implicate the ability to execute a coup.

I’m in favor of confirmation. Elections make it much more difficult for cabinet positions to be changed to fit the new administration and could bring unnecessary discord and a divided/disunified government voice, whereas a more meritocratic process is more fluid and suitable for the changing needs of an NS government. On top of that, elections can quickly become popularity contests and be based not on the value/merit of the minister candidate but instead whether or not that candidate is known/liked.

However, appointments alone can be a security issue. Ministerial positions can be stacked by coupers, or can fall victim to cronyism. With an extra check by the Assembly to approve Ministers and to be able to impeach Ministers for inactivity, dereliction of duty, crimes/corruption, etc. With confirmations, we have all the benefits of appointments with multiple benefits from elections as well. The office is fluid and meritocratic, but ultimately answers to the people.

Another thing to consider is TSP’s strong spirit of democracy. That requires citizen involvement in many affairs. With just appointment, that’s not there, with elections it’s very prominent, and with confirmations it’s there just enough to keep the people in control, not the government.

So yeah, confirmation for me.

I believe that direct elections are a fundamental aspect of South Pacifican democracy that make it stronger. The way things stand now anyone can become a minister by working hard and properly making their case directly to legislators. There is no need to have an in with the Prime Minister, and even with Assembly confirmation the fact would remain that the Prime Minister would have the sole power to issue a nomination in the first place. I would rather keep the selection of ministers as a matter between candidates and voters.

One way or another direct election of cabinet members has been part of TSP’s system for nearly twenty years and has worked well for us. Getting rid of it without good reason would be a mistake.

An appeal to tradition alone is not sufficient reason to keep things as they are. Appointment by the Prime Minister would give the Prime Minister actual agenda-setting authority (i.e. handpicking a Minister for the specific job that they want done in the Ministry) instead of placing them at the whims of the Assembly to decide not only the person in the job but the job the Assembly wants done. The status quo limits the Prime Minister to a primarily managerial role, especially given they lack both hiring and firing prerogatives, instead of a genuine leadership role.

I would agree that unfortunately the Prime Minister has seen itself deprived of authority over the years. I know how it happened but to this day I can't understand why it happened, because there is no reason why the Prime Minister should not be seen as the leading and coordinating voice within the Cabinet. It worked that way just fine when the Delegate was the head of government.

That being said, personally I feel that the region would loose more by doing away with direct minister elections. I like that legislators have a direct input on who they elect and that anyone can step up and make their case directly to the people, again, without having to have an in with the Prime Minister. I realise that part of the proposal is to have the Assembly confirm nominees, but I don't think anyone here is under the delusion that the Assembly would turn down a nomination once it has been made. The choice here would be binary and would have been pre-made by the Prime Minister. I don't like seeing legislators lose their direct role in selecting their own government, even if it comes at the expense of addressing an issue that could easily be addressed by community agreement.

(04-12-2022, 10:50 AM)HumanSanity Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-09-2022, 04:42 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: [ -> ]Every so often this idea gets floated. There are some merits to it, but I also think there is a large concentration of power within the hands of the prime minister. I'm not going to argue against it only to say that, to me, it seems easier to start/sustain a coup when you have control over the majority of the government.
I get the concept, but in practice under our current system it doesn't seem the most applicable. Neither the Cabinet, nor the PM, carry additional endorsements or influence in the region that would enable them to coup, unless also appointed members of the CRS. The Delegate and CRS hold the keys to the kingdom when it comes to executing a coup. Making it so the PM gets to pick the Minister of Engagement, neither of whom are carrying above-endo cap endorsements in the on-site region, doesn't seem to implicate the ability to execute a coup.

In theory, I agree with what you're saying, but in practice, if the Delegate and PM are working together, and the entire Cabinet is hand-picked, it seems ... difficult that the CRS/CG would be able to withstand that.

Toward the point Kris and Bel have been making, I do think the ability to run for any office levels the playing field so to speak and allows new voices in the process. Allowing the PM to pick everyone runs the risk of blocking out promising newcomers and/or pushing cliques in the process.

If no one wants to run for a position, let the PM appoint them. However, I'm just gonna repeat the usual refrain that it makes little sense to retain a PM when the office's powers have been very little. They do not appoint the cabinet and they have little control over the ministries. We have a nominal figurehead PM as much as we have a figurehead delegate.

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The Haughtherlands

Tsunamy

HumanSanity

Lerasi

Kris Kringle

Belschaft

HumanSanity

Kris Kringle

Tsunamy

Jay Coop