WARNING: THIS THREAD CONTAINS SPOILERS
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So, the time has come to discuss Star Wars: The Last Jedi. I watched it already and I'm wondering who else has seen it so we can talk about it. Personally, I think that The Force Awakens and Rogue One were better. Episode III – Revenge of the Sith remains my favorite in the series, but I remain in love with Rogue One starring Felicity Jones.
Let's get down to the point. I would rate The Last Jedi as an 8/10. My favorite scene was when Vice Admiral Amilyn Holdo (Laura Dern) took the ship to lightspeed and essentially kamikaze Supreme Leader Snoke's ship. That was epic. My problem with the film is how long it was because it felt drawn-out. After the film, I read some reviews of the film and I agree with one person who wrote that we didn't see enough of Finn (John Boyega), who was hilarious in The Force Awakens and in this film. I hate that Captain Phasma, who is portrayed by Game of Thrones actress Gwendoline Christie, dies in this film, but I loved the fight between her and Finn. The porgs, however, were freaking cute and hilarious.
I must say that I'm surprised that Supreme Leader Snoke (Andy Serkis) was killed off with little character development. I would have liked to have known a little bit more about him. Last month, Lucasfilm announced that Rian Johnson was going to be working on a new trilogy, so I'm going to be interested if we will learn more about Snoke in that trilogy. All signs seem to point to an epic fight between Rey (Daisy Ridley) and new Supreme Leader Kylo Ren (Adam Driver) in Episode IX, so I'm psyched to watch the next film.
Rest in peace, Carrie Fisher.
I would rate it, at most, and being extremely generous, 4/10. I found it an extremely boring movie, relying on misplaced humour and pointless plots, and found myself wondering several times as I watched, if it would finish soon. TLJ only further confirms my dislike for the Sequels, which lack the vision that characterised the Originals and Prequels.
So, I avoided this thread a fair bit owing to not seeing the film since just last week, then forgot to read everything in here and share my own opinion. Still, better late than never.
Generally, I enjoyed this and parts of it I enjoyed a lot. I've also absorbed a lot of other people's thought on the film afterward to help solidify my own opinion and I generally side with the thinking that goes 'the film is not without its flaws, but it's an enjoyable Star Wars film that makes some necessary steps to ensure the franchise can go on to do new things and not rely on nostalgia for everything'. I also expect that the film will be re-evaluated by fans in the future and a lot of the current negativity will fade away.
I really liked Luke's arc and thought that Yoda's appraisal of him was spot on ('cos I've always thought that Luke had this kinda attitude in him, contrary to a lot of fans, apparently) and Rey and Ben were excellent too. I also thought Rose was a cool new character and liked how she and Finn interacted. I also liked that they gave Poe a lot more to do and that he had a lot to learn in the course of the film (as an aside, one of the criticisms I've seen levelled at this film is that the characters don't progress at all, to which I can only ask - are you seeing the same film??)
Perhaps it was because I'd read a few reviews pointing out the apparent deadendedness of Finn and Rose's plotline, but I really liked their sub-plot and don't think it was pointless at all - it grows both characters (c.f. above aside), especially Finn and also shows how these big heroic plans simply can't be expected to work out every time. It was a much-needed dose of reality in an otherwise wild fantasy ride.
I did find Leia's space flight silly to begin with, but the scene was otherwise so beautiful and the poignant nature of the posthumous release made me warm to it even as I was watching. Thinking about it since I can't imagine any other way that force-pulling through space might appear and I am also reminded that I thought Yoda's lightsaber fighting in AotC looked silly when I first saw it and now I just consider it normal. I'll be interested to observe how my reaction changes (or not) over time.
I liked Vice Admiral Holdo's arc, too, but thought it a shame that we didn't have more of her. Similarily, I felt kinda sorry for Phasma (aside from the fact that she's obviously a terrible human being) for not getting more screen time, but, in fairness to her, she's had more screen time and lines in her two films than Boba Fett managed in three, even after being added in to a New Hope. Similarily, although the lack of revelations about Snoke was a little disappointing, we don't know any less about him by his death in this film than we did about the Emperor at the end of RotJ and we can be sure that some spin-off media will answer the questions one day. He fulfills his purpose pretty well in these two films, anyway.
Anyway, I'd really like to see this again, but given that it cost us a small fortune to see it in the cinema, it'll have to wait until the Blu-ray release at the very earliest. I guess I'd rate it about 8/10 and a little above TFA, owing to the greater amount of originality and the daring use of trope subversion.
Rogue One is my favourite new film so far, but then it was made for people like me, rather than a new generation of fans, so that shouldn't be much of a surprise. My favourite overall remains, somewhat controversially, RotJ.
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I can't forgive Rian Johnson for the backtracking on Luke's character, Rey's parents and Snoke; just everything about Snoke. I'm also angry at whoever thought the First Order and the Resistance were a good idea for the sequel trilogy, whoever thought that puppet Yoda was a good idea, whoever thought Mary Poppins Leia was in any way a good idea, both in terms of her suddenly using the Force and how it looked, visually speaking, whoever thought Rey had to be this unbelievable Mary Sue who's good at everything without even training, and whoever had the brilliant idea of overpromoting Phasma, when she's a ridiculous character with barely any scenes.
A bit petty and related to TFA, but you don't include Finn wielding a lightsaber in literally all your trailers, only to not make him a Jedi. -_-
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I don't think anything was backtracked. I genuinely think all of the things you just listed as having been backtracked were handled the right way. Snoke isn't the point, Ben is. Rey's parents being nobody is awesome, 'cos it stops the saga being bogged down in the past and instead looks to the future, where anybody might be the hero. Luke's character made perfect sense to me, and, actually, the idea of a grumpy, hermit Luke training a young female Jedi was apparently George Lucas's (for episode vii) so you can't at least blame Johnston for that one.
Leia's force use? I mean, why not? She had thirty years not on screen, goodness knows what's she's learned to do in that time and, even if not, I think a near death situation is exactly the time to suddenly use the force. And Phasma is no more ridiculous than any of a load of other Star Wars middleman villains.
As for Finn bring a Jedi, it never occurred to me that he ever would be for some reason, but misdirection in a trailer is a pretty common technique and a great way of surprising the audience. It seems to me that people berated TFA for not being surprising enough and now they hate TLJ for being too surprising. Oh well, to each their own, I guess, but I really did enjoy it and with this trilogy, the new books and Rebels all ongoing, I feel confident in the future of the franchise.
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Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not mad that Rey is a nobody. I'm mad that it was set up to seem otherwise. You had all these flashback scenes, the implications by Maz, all that setting up, and in the end she was just sold for drinks. I'm fine with her being a nobody, but not with the massive misdirection between episodes.
I'm annoyed with Snoke because he was also set up as this great villain. He's head of the mysterious First Order, he seduced Ben, seemed so powerful and liberal in his Force usage in from of Rey. It was a fantastic introduction to his character...until Ben kills him just like that. I find it lazy. Ben being the focus doesn't mean Snoke is any less powerful than he was made out to be.
I don't mind the concept of a grumpy, hermit Luke, but I do mind how they made it happen. I disagree with how they imply that Luke was oblivious until one day he realises Ben was going dark. Yet his reaction isn't to talk to him, see what's happening, or act like a Jedi Master, which he's been for more than a decade now. He almost kills him! That's a bit too much for me, and feels like an unrealistically quick transition from hopeful Jedi Master to almost killer to disillusioned hermit. If it had been done differently, if there had been a more obvious reason to convince him that the Jedi were a problem (Ben was seduced by the dark side, not corrupted by the Jedi), I would have less problems with his personality change.
Just like with Luke, if they'd shown that Leia had grown in the Force, I'd be more believing, but they don't, not in the movies or in the books. For all we know, she discovers her full powers right then and there, and it's just cheap. Now, this is a matter of personal opinion, but to me it just looked silly, visually speaking. It didn't look elegant or impactful, like Holdo's sacrifice, it really just looked like a fan video.
My issue with Phasma, again, is with how she was set up. She's fine as a character, but not if they promote her the way she was promoted. It just doesn't fit with her actual role in the movies, and makes her look overhyped.
My issue with TFA is it was lazy and needless fan service. My issue with TLJ is it was lazy and needless distancing and misdirection. And now we're stuck with that universe.
They should take some tips from the Prequels and the Originals, and even Rogue One too. That's how you make good Star Wars movies.
That's not what people said at the time.
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Eh. I've always been a fan of both the Prequels and the Originals. I've never really had any of the usual issues with dialogue, story, sand or Jar Jar.
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I would say 7/10. I didn’t love it, it was decent. There were quite a few problems, but it was fun enough to warrant 7/10
I don’t think Snoke is dead.
I don’t agree that they made it seem like Rey was somebody. That was the fault of the fans. I, personally, didn’t expect her to have some cool parentage and I’m not the only one.
Given what age you were when the prequels came out, Kris, it's not much of a surprise that you love them. They most likely form a part of your childhood and you love them for what they are. Those who grew up with the originals and had all the anticipation and hype before TPM largely hated them because they didn't confirm to their own fairly fixed views about what Star Wars should be - they didn't meet their childhood expectations.
I think the prequels are not great movies (Attack of the Clones in particular I think is the worst Star Wars movie so far), but I enjoy them for what they are to some degree, especially after watching the Clone Wars TV series, which helps to redeem their most egregious issues. Even then, when watching TFA for the first time, I kept thinking how much better it was than the prequels. In terms of basic cinema craft, like writing, directing and acting, it's leagues ahead, but, to some extent that's true of the new films over the originals as well. The difference for me, then, is the effect of approaching the films for the first time as an adult.
There's a whole new generation of fans for whom this trilogy will be theirs and that's cool.
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