(02-20-2015, 06:52 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote: We already explained how he threatens our security.

Go on then explain again.

(02-20-2015, 06:50 PM)southern bellz Wrote: Tsu, with all due respect, you've undermine our democracy with these actions.  I see a list of alleged crimes that Bels should have gone to trial for, and not a single mention of how he directly threatens our security that warrants the stripping of citizenship.  If this was about security, the statement would be about how he directly threatened our security.

^this.

(02-20-2015, 06:59 PM)Punchwood Wrote:

(02-20-2015, 06:52 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote: We already explained how he threatens our security.

Go on then explain again.

why its been explained to you by multiple people on this thread and you still do not understand and keep changing your positions, often in the same response. its pointless going over it again.

(02-20-2015, 07:00 PM)Apad Wrote: why its been explained to you by multiple people on this thread and you still do not understand and keep changing your positions, often in the same response. its pointless going over it again.

Yet I explain my reasoning every time you ask. Yet you still don't understand however I don't think its pointless. 

(02-20-2015, 07:21 PM)Punchwood Wrote:

(02-20-2015, 07:00 PM)Apad Wrote: why its been explained to you by multiple people on this thread and you still do not understand and keep changing your positions, often in the same response. its pointless going over it again.

Yet I explain my reasoning every time you ask. Yet you still don't understand however I don't think its pointless. 

your "reasoning" changes from post to post so i dont even believe you understand your own position on the matter. im done with this, there is no point going on with you.

I recommend that we create a committee to probe the depths of this wound and investigate this through to the end, presenting evidence to the court in the trials.
Perhaps it could also be made permanent in the event of other issues?

(02-20-2015, 07:24 PM)Apad Wrote: your "reasoning" changes from post to post so i dont even believe you understand your own position on the matter. im done with this, there is no point going on with you.

Until you start reading my posts and getting the facts right I'm not going to waste my time with you in any thread.

A few things to point out.

I believe Bel was as surprised to learn that forums had been set up for OBLT as anyone else who didn't gain access.

I feel it should be an act of complicity to have the knowledge that someone was plotting against the Coalition, but not report it until such a time as the plan is publicly exposed. I think this is where some people are frustrated with this and allege the "good ol' boys" are in place here. By waiting for the 3 months from the initial conversation to the public expose, it smacks of "Oh crap, this is public knowledge, and I knew about it for the last 3 months...better tell them myself now rather than risk exposure down the line!"

It ought to be the duty of a member of The South Pacific, and really any region, to report any such plotting against the government at the time the information is gained, even if the gravity of the situation is unclear, and not only when such plots come to light. Does the CSS have to act on every threat? Absolutely not! I'd venture to guess 99% of "plots" are not something to be acted on. Is it prudent to place in their hands information which could be further investigated and then decided upon with a course of action? Absolutely. Why else would we have a CSS?

The hypothetical here is, had this never come to light, would the conspirators, no matter their role or level of involvement, have exposed the plan were actions actually taken and not just discussed?


Edit to add: When I say report, I don't mean publicly, per se, but at the very least privately to the proper authorities.

Add to all the above that everything was done by Non-TSP citizens in a Non-TSP forum yet a TSP citizen is paying the penalty. Sorry folks. There's a lot of you with dual citizenship that fall in the same boat here tha the ONLY difference is that Cormac is unaware.

I'm still considering pressing charges against Belschaft, for the courts to have an actual case and because I do think the courts need to get some attention and be an actual branch rather than the lost child. However, I'm considering waiting until after the currently proposed court revisions go through since they seem extensive and targeted towards making the court less of a "shunted off to the side" institution.

I agree with Sevrisen, that you should report such things. I also know that sometimes people think its joking. There's plenty of times when I was delegate where people made "coup" jokes or even asked me what my nation password was and I wasn't sure if they were joking or serious. They could just state, "I was just joking like the usual." And most of them were joking. I think I reported or mentioned the names of the ones I wasn't sure of to the CSS at the time.

The only "mistake" per se was that in trying to be forgiving the former cabinet forgot that it needs to be fair and just. If it has been a different nation the reaction would be different and that's what we have to watch out for. Laws apply to all citizens equally, justice can be delayed but it should always balance on the side of justice.

Belschaft tried to abuse the system for several months to get rid of two particular people over an over again. Enough was enough.