(04-01-2015, 02:13 AM)Sopo Wrote: I would also like to note that it may be wise to include "Abuse of Administrative Powers" in the list of offenses as well, to include admins and moderators. Currently there are no repercussions if our admins/mods abuse their powers or viewing privileges.

Aye. I would prefer this be added in, as well as anything pertaining to electoral fraud. Perhaps limit campaigning/smearing to the election forum only?

I'm not excited at all to see the return of Defamation or Public Apologies.

Defamation charges amount to "he called me dumb. I'm telling mommy."
Public Apologies achieve absolutely nothing. A forced apology loses its meaning.

Unless the court delineates what happens in terms of defamation I'm wary of this, mostly defamation was used by one or two persons to shut up anyone who spoke out against them.

Also agree with TAC.

Todd, we had the discussion about election campaigns on the old forums and did not come to a resolution then either other then the current system.

I really don't want to get in the habit of having the Court layout how they would do something before they even can do that something.

(04-01-2015, 02:13 AM)Sopo Wrote: I would also like to note that it may be wise to include "Abuse of Administrative Powers" in the list of offenses as well, to include admins and moderators. Currently there are no repercussions if our admins/mods abuse their powers or viewing privileges.

Forum Administration is regulated by Administrative Policy, not by the Criminal Code.

(04-01-2015, 02:17 AM)Unibot Wrote: This is far to vague as said. I'd be concerned people would try to argue lobbying in general was 'electoral fraud' with that kind of wording.

I agree. The main concern behind the creation of Electoral Fraud charges was an OBT-style plot, not legitimate campaigning.

(04-01-2015, 02:20 AM)Todd McCloud Wrote: Perhaps limit campaigning/smearing to the election forum only?

We have a Bill of Rights that guarantees freedom of speech. In the South Pacific, campaigning is a legitimate exercise of free speech.

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I pretty much agree with Glen, TAC and Escade. These reforms are aiming at issues that have little relevance to the region today, and would offer no substantial benefit.

(04-01-2015, 10:04 AM)Kris Kringle Wrote:

(04-01-2015, 02:13 AM)Sopo Wrote: I would also like to note that it may be wise to include "Abuse of Administrative Powers" in the list of offenses as well, to include admins and moderators. Currently there are no repercussions if our admins/mods abuse their powers or viewing privileges.

Forum Administration is regulated by Administrative Policy, not by the Criminal Code.

But that does not include what happens if admins abuse their power, aside from removing them from the admin team. Even then, they would be removed by the other admins. Such an addition to the Criminal Code would give regular citizens the ability to hold admins accountable if they use their power nefariously (such as for political gain).

I don't see the need for that. If an administrator abuses their power then the proper action should be for the team to remove them and try to repair the damage. Other actions should be dealt with by the Court only if they constitute an actual crime, under our current laws. Our Criminal Code is already quite extensive and details in that regard.

Since we've never had a defamation trial and the only person who used it as a threat was Belschaft, I am firmly opposed.

Instead, let's get to the crux of the matter - TSP has a long history of toxic Assembly conversations. Even some people who are generally calm now have gotten into some endless cycles of rudeness, personal attacks or threats in Assembly threads. Going through our Zeta boards threads has people using curse words against each other so we've slowly gotten a lot better but we are still not there.

If people genuinely want to see a more polite and civil TSP (and I remind that when I first brought this issue of toxicity I was told to stop whining and either get with the program or get out of politics) then we should do what we might expect in situations like this - peer mediation.

I would rather see Administration stop people who engage in such conversations from posting, like a temp ban and some sort of system for dealing with the issue overall. If we look to the TSP forums of old, whether the ones prior to this or the ones before that, almost everyone has some moments of heat but a few people consistently have altercations that hijack threads.

The problem has been that when Admins have temp banned someone then there supporters start screaming about freedom of speech. Therefore, are we committed to actually being more polite and civilized and ensuring that administration can temporarily stop offenders from posting and create some sort of point system where repeat offenders will be given longer then a 24 hour ban?

Rather then defamation and forced apologies I'd rather we set up some sort of system for mediation where people who are known to be impartial and not politically tangled up in TSP (I think of Asta and Xoriet, perhaps Eluvatar and there may be others, Salaxalans is another who comes to mind for being able to explain to a person why they are out of hand in a non-antagonistic manner) to mediate with both persons.

If the goal is a more polite and civil TSP, then this is the approach that would work best and be beneficial to the community as it shows how to positively work through issues.

So I have a question for those who are against defamation. What recourse does someone have if they are consistantly being harassed by an individual in the region, where they are daily smeared, baited, harassed, and defamed? Should they deal with it, fight it, or one day hope that the agressor gives up? What if this slander is damaging to the individual? Should the harassed individual leave the region?

While I am definitely for free speech, I am also for protecting people from harassment and bullying by other individuals in the region. I believe there needs to be a law in place for defamation, but that it should be clearly defined to prevent it from being casually flung around.

Oh, see this is how it worked in the past. I reported being harrassed and bullied etc by Belschaft to the CSS and several members and they said, "We can't do nothing, this is politics either do what he does or go away."

So therefore, I suggest we work on peace circles and peer mediation. Unless of course Todd, you want to turn this into a litigious society where people - for example - sue others for attributing one member's actions off site onto another members joke thread. You know things like that that are below the belt.