I'll poke Farengeto on this, since it hasn't been brought to vote

You can do it yourself, Awe.


~Professor Henn, Hardcore Leftist, Totally not a Dinosaur

(06-24-2015, 02:25 AM)ProfessorHenn Wrote: You can do it yourself, Awe.


~Professor Henn, Hardcore Leftist, Totally not a Dinosaur

Alright then

This is now up to vote

(06-23-2015, 10:35 PM)Farengeto Wrote: While it's been motioned so I will bring this to vote, I oppose this change.


Admins are still fully allowed to issue penalties for proxides according to admin policy, all this proposal does is prevent people from appealing those.


In other words, this prevents those with valid reasons from defending themselves.

We actually can't issue any kind of penalty for proxy use. The only time proxy use is even mentioned is during the citizenship application process, where an application can be denied due to proxy use. However, given that numerous areas of our forum don't require citizenship -- and that includes, now, areas of government (the SPSF and probably soon the Local Council) -- and thus skip the cit app security checks altogether, the existing provision in the Charter leaves open a large security hole. This amendment would bring us in line with most other regions, including nearly all GCRs (which tend to be prime targets for proxy abuse).

There are very, very few legitimate reasons for proxy use. Almost all free and public proxies are banned in NationStates, for instance. There are a few reasons why disallowing proxies is a good idea:

• Proxies obfuscate identity, and thus are a security risk. There are two ways any forum software can recognize a user: their username/email address, and their IP address. Because usernames and email addresses can be changed, the best method of identifying users is through their IPs. This is how security is handled in NationStates. We have lists of IPs used by known security threats and spammers. Using a proxy is a red flag, because it is the most obvious way those people can "trick" the community into thinking they're somebody else. We should be suspicious of proxy users who seem to be already highly experienced in how NationStates works, for instance.
  
• Proxies are widely abused. Almost all spam originates from proxy nodes. This is why NationStates bans most proxy services, including TOR.
  
• Proxies allow users to get around bans. The strongest ban that can be issued is an IP ban. If a user is using a proxy, then they can easily get around that ban.
  

The vast majority of users will not be using a proxy. Of those who do, there are only a handful of legitimate reasons for them to be using proxies. In actuality, if they have a legitimate reason, they'll be using a VPN rather than a public proxy. VPNs are different and we actually can tell the difference. I use a VPN at times to get around traffic throttling. However, I also have a well-established IP address and a good reputation. A brand new user coming to the forums using a VPN or proxy would need a very good explanation for why they need to use it while accessing these forums. Even then, the deck is stacked against them, because the vast majority of proxy connections made here are from spammers or those with malicious intent.

(06-23-2015, 10:05 PM)QuietDad Wrote: I sort of support this, but would think you would want to word it as Usage of Proxies without Admin approval. There are legitimate uses of proxies (young kids, battered spouses, stalking victims) but the problems would not necessarily come up often in this venue, but should be available "just in case"

We treat every potential security risk on a case-by-case basis.

(06-24-2015, 02:03 PM)Sandaoguo Wrote:

(06-23-2015, 10:35 PM)Farengeto Wrote: While it's been motioned so I will bring this to vote, I oppose this change.


Admins are still fully allowed to issue penalties for proxides according to admin policy, all this proposal does is prevent people from appealing those.


In other words, this prevents those with valid reasons from defending themselves.

We actually can't issue any kind of penalty for proxy use. The only time proxy use is even mentioned is during the citizenship application process, where an application can be denied due to proxy use. However, given that numerous areas of our forum don't require citizenship -- and that includes, now, areas of government (the SPSF and probably soon the Local Council) -- and thus skip the cit app security checks altogether, the existing provision in the Charter leaves open a large security hole. This amendment would bring us in line with most other regions, including nearly all GCRs (which tend to be prime targets for proxy abuse).

That sounds like an issue with your administrative policies then, not the Charter.

As in clearly states in the text you are trying to amend, this only prevents the appeals of admin actions. Nowhere does it specify these as what the admins are allowed to do, nor does the text suggest this is even the only thing they are allowed to moderate.

I'm against this for two reasons.

1. There may be a real life reason why someone is using proxies.
2. This to me just seems to be the Admins wanting more power and more control over TSP and the forums.

(06-25-2015, 12:27 PM)Farengeto Wrote: That sounds like an issue with your administrative policies then, not the Charter.

As in clearly states in the text you are trying to amend, this only prevents the appeals of admin actions. Nowhere does it specify these as what the admins are allowed to do, nor does the text suggest this is even the only thing they are allowed to moderate.

If we could ban proxy use unilaterally, we would. However, every time the admins have ever done anything without it being expressly authorized in law, we've been attacked and threatened with revolution.

This is a common sense security policy. You won't find a region our size that doesn't restrict proxy use. It's absurd that we haven't been doing so for nearly a year now. I'm not sure what Hileville's policy was-- he's voting against, for whatever reason -- but administrators back then weren't constantly attacked for doing things by themselves.

If we can't even agree that proxy use is a security issue, then this region is absolutely imperiling itself due to ignorance and a politicized security and administrative team.

(06-25-2015, 01:58 PM)Punchwood Wrote: I'm against this for two reasons.

1. There may be a real life reason why someone is using proxies.
2. This to me just seems to be the Admins wanting more power and more control over TSP and the forums.

Being a forum admin means you have to not only maintain the functionality of the forum, but look out for those with malicious/ulterior motives. If your using a proxy, chances are, your not here to make friends and be a positive force in the community.

I'm in full support of this.