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Sit in Lazarus - Printable Version

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Sit in Lazarus - Tsunamy - 04-07-2015

From what I can gather, something has been going down in Laz where Stu (the delegate) is attempting to consolidate power and eject nations. Apparently, he has even ejected Funk (from what I can tell).

Cormac told me that TNP and Taijitu are apparently closing embassies in protest. But, from what I can gather, none of this is illegal, so I think we stand by Stu.

So ... at the moment, I'm not sure we have much to report. Or much we should do.

I just wanted to keep everyone abreast of the situation, in case it gets worse. Or in case we need to issue a statement regarding our relationship with them.


RE: Sit in Lazarus - Tsunamy - 04-07-2015

Got passed the following from The Church of Satan.

First:

Quote:Greetings,

I contact you today as a treaty ally from Lazarus. In the last 24 hours, Chairman Stujenske has illegally dissolved the judiciary of Lazarus and banned several nations without due process of law, a direct violation of our constitution. While we try to resolve this internal conflict peacefully, I ask that TSP close embassies with Lazarus in protest of Chairman Stujensek's tyrannical and illegal actions against The People's Republic, as Taijitu has already done. We do not yet ask for military action, as we hope to resolve this without conflict. As you might expect, this request is not sanctioned by Chairman Stujenske or Vice Chairman Alexej. However Lazarus is in dire need of assistance.
The Church of Satan,
Cultural District Governor of Lazarus

Then, when I asked for more info:


Quote:It started when Stu illegally changed the flag of Lazarus. We have a law to determine our flag and he did not amend it to change the flag. Funkadelia spoke out about this. Stu however did not like this and responded by banning Funkadelia without due process of law, as required by our constitution. He then followed up by disbanding the judiciary of Lazarus so Funk could not appeal the decision. Later, The People's Congress called for a Vote of Confidence. If the vote had proceeded Stu would have been recalled as delegate. Stu deleted the threads for all attempts to recall him so he could stay in power. Not more than an hour or so ago, he illegally dissolved the constitution of Lazarus. He has now made it clear his intention to draft a new constitution without the involvement of the citizens of Lazarus. Since Stu doesn't know how to use the Admin CP, Feux has been working the controls on his behalf. The following illustrates exactly how he violated Lazarene law, thus becoming a rogue delegate.

Before dissolving Mandate 8 (the constitution), Stu violated the constitution.

Section 3
"3. There must always be a province for the Lazarene Liberation Army and justice."
Stu was legally allowed to get rid of the judicial district, but he failed to create a replacement province for justice.
------------------------
Section 6
11. The Chairman shall have the authority to amend the Constitution without consultation in order to protect the Republic or preserve the principles of the Revolution. In the event of such an amendment, the Chairman shall make a statement to the People's Congress outlining the justification for the amendment.
While it is his legal right to amend the constitution, it is not within his power to can it altogether.
------------------------
Section Seven - Regarding Constitutional Amendments and Repeals
"1. Section Two of this document may only be added to. Section Seven of this document may not be edited or revised."
Let's look at the definition of the word "edit".
Edit: to expunge; eliminate.
By eliminating the constitution he broke the law. This specific part of the constitution is not allowed, in any way shape or form, to be deleted or changed.
The Codex of Lazarene Laws clearly states:
"3.2 Forum Crimes: Destructively destroying forum content, pornspamming, and gorespamming are punishable by banishment from the region and forum. This also applies to spamming people with disturbing content, or presenting it to them without their consent."
------------------------
By obstructing the Vote of Confidence (via deleting its thread) called for by The People's Congress, he has committed an absolute crime as defined by law. Thus he is guilty of forum destruction and by law must be banned from Lazarus. He indeed did so with the intent of destroying all attempts to remove him from power.

I've also reached out to Stu, but haven't heard back from him yet.

I, personally, don't see a difference between Stu being allowed to change the charter and can it whole sale. But ... idk how we all feel about it. More, what I'm concerned about, is how allies hold up through these.


RE: Sit in Lazarus - Feirmont - 04-07-2015

All I know about our allies is only Spiritus and The North Pacific (edit: and Taijitu) have closed their Embassies both gameside and forumside.

I personally don't feel we should go to the extreme of closing the embassy. After all, I refer you to the Lazarus-TSP treaty:
Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation between The South Pacific and Lazarus Wrote:Article VI. Exchange of Embassies.

Section 1. The parties to this treaty agree to establish permanent embassies on their respective community forums, which shall be open until such a time that either party requests their embassy to be closed.

I believe we should wait to hear from Stu; if Stu has indeed gone rogue, then perhaps Alexej. If both are rogue, I'm sure we can ask for more than just one of their governors about what's going on.

It's a situation that needs to be watched closely for sure. But we shouldn't take drastic measures yet.

In my opinion. I'm still relatively new to gameside affairs to be honest.


RE: Sit in Lazarus - Tsunamy - 04-08-2015

How's this for a statement regarding Laz?


Quote:The South Pacific is greatly saddened by the recent events in our friend and ally, Lazarus. While we recognize that this is an internal matter for the citizens of Lazarus, we sincerely hope for a speedy and amicable resolution to the situation.

As the oldest democracy in NationStates, we certainly understand the need to have a government of checks and balances and governmental officials who are held accountable to the people of the region. 

We strongly believe that the fundamental rights of the Lazarene citizens should be respected and urge those involved to put the region and its citizenry ahead of personal power grabs.

I'm really torn on a course of action. I think it's a grey area, but popular sentiment seems against Stu. Wolf suggested supporting the Government in Exile. I'll be interested to see what others think.

Sopo was reaching out to TNP and Spritius to see why they decided to withdraw embassies.


RE: Sit in Lazarus - Tsunamy - 04-08-2015

Ok, well both Wolf and GR has suggested we acknowledge the Government in Exile. I'm assuming this would include requesting a "memorandum of understanding" of the government in exile and withdrawing our Embassy in protest.

Thoughts?


RE: Sit in Lazarus - Feirmont - 04-08-2015

If they both agree on it, then I'm all for it.


RE: Sit in Lazarus - Tsunamy - 04-08-2015

Ok. Gimme a couple and I'll draft a statement. And we'll take a vote.


RE: Sit in Lazarus - Tsunamy - 04-08-2015

Potential Statement:

Quote:The South Pacific is greatly saddened by the recent events in our friend and ally, Lazarus, and we sincerely hope for a speedy and amicable resolution.

As the oldest democracy in NationStates, we certainly understand the need to have a government of checks and balances and governmental officials who are held accountable to the people of the region. We strongly believe that the fundamental rights of the Lazarene citizens should be respected and urge those involved to put the region and its citizenry ahead of personal power grabs.

As such, out of respect for the government-in-exile, The South Pacific will be closing its in-game embassy with Lazarus until such time that this dispute is resolved. We hope that the region will be reunited and that the People's Republic of Lazarus will once again assume it's rightful place as Lazarus' government.

Thoughts? Can we vote on the release of this and the removal of our embassy?

Tsu: Aye
Pen: Aye
Aram:Aye
Feir: Aye
Henn:


RE: Sit in Lazarus - Feirmont - 04-08-2015

Aye


RE: Sit in Lazarus - Aramanchovia - 04-08-2015

Once again in second last line (typo). Also that is dispute should provably be that this dispute.

As mentioned elsewhere, I try to stay out of other regions politics, but if this is the recommended position from those in the know, I will tentatively support it.