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+------ Thread: Recall: Minister of Foreign Affairs (/thread-918.html)
Recall: Minister of Foreign Affairs - Cormac - 08-25-2014
In response to a news piece by the East Pacific News Service (EPNS), Minister of Foreign Affairs Sandaoguo made the following comments in regard to Hobbes and a forum switch being undertaken by Lazarus to remove Hobbes as root administrator:
Quote:Furthermore, if I were hazard an (educated) guess, I would say that Lazarus didn't go around telling everybody because they wanted to avoid a situation where Hobbes deleted the forums before they had attempted to archive important information. GCRs are leaky, and it's not like Lazarus hasn't been the target of attacks these past few days.
Hobbes, for reference, is a well respected citizen of The East Pacific, a current administrator and a former judicial official. He has also recently been appointed Deputy Minister of Security in Osiris. Indeed, until Funkadelia threw a fit in Lazarus for reasons still unknown, Hobbes was on the region's Vanguard list of those who have made significant contributions to the region -- including providing them with a custom forum and serving as interim Chairman after Kazmr's resignation, administering the election that resulted in Funkadelia being elected Chairman.
Minister Sandaoguo has refused to apologize for his comments toward Hobbes after repeated calls to do so by citizens of both The East Pacific and Osiris, even after Lazarene officials have clarified that they were never concerned about forum destruction. The only "apology" offered (here) was a sarcastic, insincere remark. This has the potential to cause damage to relations with The East Pacific and has already caused damage to relations with Osiris, as in my capacity as Pharaoh of Osiris, I have begun withdrawal of Osiris' in-game embassy with TSP in protest of the Minister's inexcusable actions.
I move for the recall of Sandaoguo as Minister of Foreign Affairs. The South Pacific needs to be represented by someone who can actually conduct diplomacy with other regions, rather than insulting as many regions as possible and damaging relations with as many non-defender regions as he can over the course of his multiple terms. This region has not elected a diplomat to manage its foreign affairs, it has elected a saboteur.
Recall: Minister of Foreign Affairs - sandaoguo - 08-25-2014
The Pharaoh of Osiris using his citizenship to petition for the Minister of Foreign Affairs of TSP to be recalled is highly inappropriate. When that Pharaoh does so because of some made up pretense that the Minister of Foreign Affairs made an explicit accusation that Lazarus' former root forum administrator was imminently planning on destroying Lazarus' a forum -- an entirely false accusation cooked up to validate your own political witch hunt -- is beyond acceptable.
This is a gross interference by you into TSP's domestic politics.
RE: Recall: Minister of Foreign Affairs - Tsunamy - 08-25-2014
Can I ask why Osiris is choosing to close their embassy over a remark made about a citizen? This seems a little over the top to me.
Unless, of course, Hobbes holds a position in Osiris I'm unaware of.
Recall: Minister of Foreign Affairs - Kris Kringle - 08-25-2014
The OP says Hobbes is Deputy Minister of Security in Osiris.
For the record, I have been otherwise occupied in the last few hours, and will abstain from commenting on this matter until I have a complete understanding of the situation.
Recall: Minister of Foreign Affairs - sandaoguo - 08-25-2014
(08-25-2014, 08:13 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: Can I ask why Osiris is choosing to close their embassy over a remark made about a citizen? This seems a little over the top to me.
Unless, of course, Hobbes holds a position in Osiris I'm unaware of.
Cormac previously declared that TSP and Osiris were never going to be allies in the foreseeable future, so I suppose ending in-game embassies was just a matter of time.
This is definitely over the top. Osiris has decided to declare war on Lazarus, because a Lazarus official made an off-hand remark about how Cormac needed to get more endorsements because people were giving the official ideas. (In other words, joking about couping Osiris.) Milograd's coup of TSP was also used a few times as justification, which I'm frankly annoyed that people keep doing, since we've long since gotten over that.
Since then, Lazarus has become the new punching bag of the month for NS Gameplay. I have been correcting biased articles about Lazarus' recent forum move. Because I was told about the forum move before it happened, and before Lazarus at large was told, some have accused me of being part of a secret plot to control Lazarus' forums. In reality, I was sent an unsolicited message on IRC for technical help, which is why I knew beforehand that the forum switch was happening. In taking an educated guess as to why the move wasn't made public days before it happened, I suggested (based on the frantic request I received) that perhaps they wanted to make sure they had a backup before going public, in case Hobbes would end up deleting the forum before they could save important info.
Despite stating explicitly that it was a guess, political opportunists twisted my words into a blatant accusation that Hobbes was going to destroy the forums. Because I've been seen as defending Lazarus (now the enemy), certain people (like Cormac) are intent on attacking me and making diplomatic incidents out of nothing.
RE: Recall: Minister of Foreign Affairs - Unibot - 08-25-2014
Excuse me, Cormac - but that was exactly the situation we faced. There was a very real threat that Hobbes would destroy Lazarus's forum - which was why Lazarus approached me looking for technical help in scraping the forum. I approached Eluvatar and Glen-Rhodes, the two people I know who had the technical experience to scrape.
Glen is right that at any point that it got out that Lazarus was trying to back-up their own forums, it was possible Hobbes could blow - we didn't know. Nobody was taking any chances. This was a similar situation as what TSP faced with Hileville, only much worse.
RE: Recall: Minister of Foreign Affairs - Cormac - 08-25-2014
Are you suggesting that Hileville would have destroyed the TSP forum now?
I'm going to need to see some evidence that there was any risk of Hobbes destroying the Lazarene forum. A Lazarene official has stated that they were never concerned about forum destruction. So right now it's your word and Glen's word in the absence of any evidence. Not good enough for me.
I would also like to note that Glen has disclosed this recall on the Gameplay forum, even though it's posted in the Assembly's private chamber, and is suggesting that I'm abusing my citizenship here by, apparently, believing that the Minister's extreme and inappropriate actions might be harmful to this region as well as condemning his actions as a foreign head of government. I'm not sure exactly what the protocol is in regard to divulging information from the Assembly's private forum, but I would imagine the private nature of the forum would imply the contents should remain private.
RE: Recall: Minister of Foreign Affairs - Todd McCloud - 08-26-2014
(08-25-2014, 10:37 PM)Unibot Wrote: Excuse me, Cormac - but that was exactly the situation we faced. There was a very real threat that Hobbes would destroy Lazarus's forum - which was why Lazarus approached me looking for technical help in scraping the forum. I approached Eluvatar and Glen-Rhodes, the two people I know who had the technical experience to scrape.
Glen is right that at any point that it got out that Lazarus was trying to back-up their own forums, it was possible Hobbes could blow - we didn't know. Nobody was taking any chances. This was a similar situation as what TSP faced with Hileville, only much worse.
If there was a very real threat that Hobbes would destroy Lazarus's forums, why did Lazarus fail to relay this threat to a region it holds a security treaty with? Moreover, why did those in-the-know in TSP decide to withhold this information from TEP, where Hobbes is a forum admin?
RE: Recall: Minister of Foreign Affairs - Unibot - 08-26-2014
(08-25-2014, 11:57 PM)Cormac Wrote: Are you suggesting that Hileville would have destroyed the TSP forum now?
"This was a similar situation as what TSP faced with Hileville, only much worse."
Quote:I'm going to need to see some evidence that there was any risk of Hobbes destroying the Lazarene forum. A Lazarene official has stated that they were never concerned about forum destruction. So right now it's your word and Glen's word in the absence of any evidence. Not good enough for me.
We know only what the Lazarene government told us - that there was a pressing need to scrape the forums because we couldn't count on the forums to not be discarded in the messy negotiations which would follow.
G-R was helping out our treatied ally when they desperately asked for help. He should be praised not recalled.
RE: Recall: Minister of Foreign Affairs - Cormac - 08-26-2014
I'm not seeing any evidence that the Lazarene government told you this, and I'm not taking your word for it.