| Osiris |
(04-22-2016, 05:01 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote: Ah, I should add to my original post - there were two rounds of voting. The first ended in a tie until Severisen voted for re-open nominations as Electoral Commissioner and involved both sides trying everything they could to win - that were legal. What I'm about to detail is what I know that started it. My first encounter with the issues of the election came when I was presented with a screenshot that showed RiderSyl, a prominent raider and convicted forum destroyer, telling another player, Marselek, to shift his vote in the election from Whale to Jakker because they (Cormac, Koth, Tim, himself) believed that Jesus Whale was a Gatesville Plant. It's important to remember here that "Gatesville Plant" has become synonymous with "person we do not like / person who doesn't do as we say" in Osiris, and it was used in a similar means against Ainocra last year - through the Miniluv Messenger article that Cormac posted which sent every regional intelligence agency into hyperdrive from Albion to The North Pacific as we got worried trying to investigate (I was Minister of Foreign Affairs for The North Pacific at the time). I contacted Whale once I heard of this - as personally, I wanted to see for myself whether this was true. I also contacted both Jakker and Severisen. Jakker being another candidate in that election and Severisen was the Security Administrator. I created a Skype Room for Jakker and Whale initially, where we discussed it - others were added by Whale regarding the screenshot to mention what conversations of their own they'd had and it was agreed that a statement should be issued to ensure it wasn't brushed under the carpet. Jakker said that he'd issue the statement, otherwise Whale would be attacked and accused of using it for political gains. Whale agreed, as that would have happened and Jakker had a lot of respect from the community. Unfortunately, it went pear-shaped when Cormac attacked Jakker accusing him of dragging out of character matters into the election and generally went on a character assassination rampage. With those allegations starting to really take hold, and with a memory of this happening before in Osiris - both under the 2011-13 government and the OFO, I asked publicly on the forum about it - with the screenshot. Cormac disclaimed all knowledge, and accused those of us asking questions about this of furthering the toxicity inside the community, as though RiderSyl had not already propogated the toxic atmosphere via his back channel campaign which he claimed had support of those I mentioned above. RiderSyl fell on his sword, which is his standard response to this and claimed he'd retire from NationStates because of it. (He lasted three days.) While this was happening, things got nasty between both sides in the Skype room (the main Osiris skype room), the level of which I have not seen since 2013. I've seen no evidence of vote-buying. Only fear mongering, slander, threats and a two faced root admin. Osiris recently switched from First Past The Post to IRV, to eliminate strategic voting. Ironically, it didn't work. We hit a tie in the first round, between RON and Whale and it only went to RON because Zaolat apparently had a forum permissions error and couldn't post thus allowing Severisen to be the tiebreaker and award the election to RON. I am going to say, in my own experience, that Zaolat could post as early as December 2015 without problems in posts that were visible publicly. He had not voted in anything since December, so there was not, without that excuse, a good reason to count his vote. However, Severisen stated that there been a permissions error and thus his vote for RON was valid, thus bringing it level with the vote for Jesus Whale. Is that the case or not? I don't know. I do know that I haven't been an administrator since January; that Zaolat has been on a Leave of Absence and that you need to vote regularly to maintain your membership of the Deshret. It is messy, murky and reeks of something foul. Before Zaolat was magically found to deliver the tying vote, Whale was set to win by 1 - Cormac had already premptively created a recall thread for him. Whale beat Cormac in the second round by one vote. A Councillor who voted for Whale, the person who allowed me to share the screenshot I mentioned, was Marselek who resigned after the election saying that enough was enough and he couldn't deal with it anymore. Perfectly acceptable when one of Cormac's allies do it, but apparently not here. It let to a resurgence in the recall thread that Cormac pushed to vote as soon as possible. At the time of the coup, I believe it was solidly against the recall with only about three people in favour of it. Cormac, Koth and one other, that I do not remember. If it would help, I can provide the screenshot sent me, once I find it. (04-22-2016, 05:01 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote: Cormac lost an election. That's why it began. Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making
Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator ![[Image: B9ytUsy.png]](https://i.imgur.com/B9ytUsy.png)
Oh I did manage to discover the original screenshot.
I had permission to share it prior to all this happened, I doubt that has changed. ![[Image: SkypePhoto_20160404_062428.jpg]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/106833076625133568/166508464632233986/SkypePhoto_20160404_062428.jpg) My theory on all this is that RiderSyl sought to discredit Jakker and Whale so he'd be able to say "look at me, I'm innocent at this and they're playing dirty!" but my calling him out on this, and the statement from Jakker kind of prevented that.
I telegramed Cormac last night, to try and get his side of the story. With that and the above posts in consideration, I think I understand the basics of the situation, even when I couldn't possible understand all the intricacies and details as well as a native Osiran.
I understand what the public justification is, I could even believe that the coupers honestly believe they are in the right, but all that conflicts with the simple fact that...it's just not their place to make that call. Osiris had institutions and legal procedures. As much as people say they were flaws and not entirely democratic, they were there. I can't agree with the nation that three people would decide that they knew better than the entire region, and simply take power by force. Every time I try to have a "balanced" view and understand the other side, I keep returning to that basic fact: nobody has a right to coup. They don't own the region. As always, in a democracy the decision belongs to the people, and the people had spoken, both by choosing the current government structure and by electing Jesus Whale as their Pharaoh. -- Ravenclaw, if it's not too much of a bother (I'm starting to feel bad with all these questions) could we get just a short insight as to why exactly they didn't like Jesus Whale? I mean, I read your description about the Gatesville thing, but is there anything else, considering you made it pretty clear that was also a euphemism? Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System
Truly, my own opinion of this is that they were opposed to him simply because he had membership of a region called The Silver Isles.
TSI was a region that at its founder order, Diol, who supported Gatesville's occupation of Osiris in 2013. The main claim was that he, Jesus Whale, was actively supporting the occupation via his WA. It was reportedly, proven false by Severisen from what I've been told. I further believe that the opposition comes from the fact that unlike Festavo, Joshua Bluteisen, or even myself, they are not establishment backed or supported. Whale is his own person, and I think that terrifies them knowing that a Pharaoh of Osiris, not from their established group could have the power of the Delegacy and the Pharaohship and use it - in their minds, that power is reserved for solely them. I do not agree with that view. That is not what I supported the OFO in support of, back in 2013. That is the very same thinking they (Cormac and Koth) accused Empire of back then.
Isn't it funny that even Balder, the region Cormac praised in his coup statement, is closing its embassy with Osiris?
Irony is so sweet.
Deputy Regional Minister of the Planning and Development Agency(March 8-May 19, 2014)
Local Council Member(April 24-August 11) Court Justice of TSP(August 15-December 7)
My apologies @Lord Ravenclaw for getting you involved, I had only seen a snapshot of what has publically occurred. I saw you were no longer masked as a citizen that's why I had believed you would be a good source. On your advice I would recommend we take an officially neutral position and send envoys to both sides of this conflict. By doing this we can not get involved but envoys we send can provide updates to us and if anything occurs they can tell us.
Above all else, I hope to be a decent person.
Has Been What's Next? CoA: August 2016-January 2017
Minister of Foreign Affairs: October 2019-June 2020, October 2020- February 2021
I just want to reiterate my view that we should summarily ban anybody engaging in a coup. Having seen this history play out before, not doing it immediately will mean everybody forgets next year when Cormac arrives in TSP again and he puts up a veneer of reasonableness.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (04-23-2016, 12:31 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: I just want to reiterate my view that we should summarily ban anybody engaging in a coup. I've been involved in several feeder coups (TEP Empire, TWP Triumvirate, TNP Crimson Government) and actively contributed troops and was one of the main conspirators in one of those (TEP). ...and I organized and lead a full scale successful counter-coup involving nearly 100 nations (TWP, unnamed Eli coup government), personally ended a coup as a Vice-Delegate (TNP, Durka II), resisted several invasions/coups as a Delegate without outside military support (Lazarus, various raider groups), and supported several successful resistance movements (TSP, TNP, Lazarus). But I guess I deserve to be banned based upon one incident and forget the rest of my history. You know, the history which earned me a game side Commendation.
Yeah, you do in my opinion. Maybe to not to coup in the future.
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