(05-13-2014, 06:46 AM)The Union of Free Individuals Wrote: If that is such an important thing to have then please tell me so, and I'll make a bloody Attacks On Religion And Science And Their Corresponding Apologetics thread, and in there we can rage until the stars grow cold about which of our mutually unprovable theories is true.
I take offence to that last part, as provability is contrary to the very nature of science.
Quote:Thirdly, I am well aware of how science brings about new information and understanding about the nature of the cosmos, but this thread is not for that, this thread is for the REASON of the cosmos. It's like this, I'm asking "who planted this apple tree?" and your telling me that "an apple tree typically bears 88-441 pounds of apples when mature, is most easily harvested using three point ladders, and is of the same species credited for inspiring Sir Isaac Newton's Theory of Gravity" which are all good things to know that humanity would be far poorer for the absence of, but does not address my question of who planted the damn tree? And when I ask you to stop giving me facts about apple trees and answer my question you say it's my fault for asking who planted it.
My argument isn't any less valid because my why includes scientific detail. I did say why, my why just contains science.
Quote:Again. Apple tree. Planter. 88-441 pounds. Gravity. Also congratulations, you are either a theoretical astro-physicist, or know how to navigate Wikipedia. Possibly both. Regardless I would like an answer as to why there is a universe.
It's engineer, and thank you.
Quote:What is artificial? If it means made by man, then is not the whole of human existence an artificial construct? Even if it is, so what? In that case, what would make it any less real then the feel of rain on your skin, the taste of the first peach of spring, or the overwhelming feeling of love? In short, how is a soul any less real then emotions? After all, all you can be sure of is that you think, therefore you are.
Hold on... is this entire paragraph "emotion is real, therefore the soul is real"? That's not an argument, that's making arbitrary connections to say something is true.
But the whole of human existence is a manmade construct. Even consciousness is an illusion we create to give sentient life the idea of value. The main reason we are the one species with the ability to really think is thousands of years of scientific advancement resulting from our higher brain size which have reduced the time one needs to spend gathering food, allowing more time for our other pursuits.
Of course, emotions don't really exist either. Emotions are just our way of quantifying the chemical reactions which regulate our behaviour. They're just a built-in way to make us do what benefits ourselves and others. And by your logic, since emotions don't exist then the soul doesn't exist.
Quote:Lets run with this and imagine that your right about it being an artificial construct, my reasoning for the soul above still holds. However, I want to point out that morality is far more then a mere benefit to society, it is also of extreme value to the individual, especially when dealing with other humans one on one. If an individual is immoral, other people will dislike him, above and beyond the social construct of ethics and sanctions and law. I am sure that you know someone who is, for lack of a better term, a total @$$hole. He's not breaking any societal regulations, but something about them is just completely offputting, on a level that most would recognize as immoral, or wrong, without doing anything against society. I think the root of morality goes far deeper then our herd mentality.
Nothing else to really to debate here, though I did touch on the morality part above.
Quote:Finally, aha! Nothing gets passed insomnia enhanced hearing, not even techno-magical bartenders!
Well that's all I have to say about that. Sorry it was another long post. Good night sir and/or madame!
TL,DR; Quit being lazy and expecting cliff notes! Go back and actually read it, I don't do these things for fun you know! Well actually I do but you should read it any way!
If you haven't guessed by now, I'm an atheist and a nihilist. And no, not the depressed kind. To me, life's lack of meaning gives it its own little meaning. But that's its own topic.
And I'm not lazy, I'm concise. I don't like writing paragraphs when a couple sentences will do.
