(08-03-2019, 04:02 AM)Roavin Wrote:

(07-31-2019, 07:57 AM)Belschaft Wrote: I’ll note the continued general lack of any breaches of our existing security infrastructure or major threats that would justify such radical alterations to our democratic structures.

(08-01-2019, 11:48 AM)Farengeto Wrote: And also therefore on that basis we need to radically alter the state of our democracy, as this new body with the same people involved and same anti-coup mechanics definitely would have detected the thing that could have happened if the other things happened, which the existing set of the same people supposedly would have definitely been helpless against.

(08-01-2019, 11:48 AM)Farengeto Wrote: "This proposal doesn’t significantly alter anything other than fundamentally changing the nature of our democracy by creating a powerful group able to make changes to and override our democratic norms and institutions."

(08-01-2019, 11:48 AM)Farengeto Wrote: I'm with Bel on this one. These proposals are always all just oligarchy for the promise of security. It's all built on exaggerated fears. Fear of the worst case scenarios of hypotheticals, when our region has continued to handle these situations with existing institutions. The hypothetical gains to security are not worth the real cost to our democracy.

(08-01-2019, 02:25 PM)Farengeto Wrote: Is our regional security perfect? Of course not, nothing is. But it does its job. We don't need to undermine the core tenets of our democracy out of fear for things that are under control.

Okay, I gotta call this out for what it is. Fearmongering propaganda.

Please, if any of these proposals are as horrible as you say they are then show us. Show us where we propose such an infringement of our democratic processes. Show us what it is that leads you to this rhetoric. Show us what makes you say that this is in any way an installation of some oligarchy that doesn't exist.

Surely, if these proposals are as horrible as you two are making them out to be, then you can show us. Demonstrate it. Explain it. Whatever it is that's more than just "my democracy!".

Just show us.

Go on.

We're waiting.

To quote myself from the second page of this thread;

(11-13-2018, 02:22 PM)Belschaft Wrote: You are proposing a system were an unelected, self-selecting group is in charge of;

1. Deciding who can become a legislator
2. Deciding who can stand to be Delegate

It's almost like you went out of your way to create the most oligarchic and least democratic system you could think of. This is an absurd proposal, completely out of keeping with fifteen years of TSP's traditions. It is the apparatus of a security state that makes Balder look transparent and democratic.

The creation of a security body with sweeping powers over our elections and the assembly is antithetical to democracy. The powers you propose to give the DC are unprecedented in TSP history and on a fundamental level incompatible with an open, pluralistic and democratic region.