Users browsing this thread:

***Kris Kringle*** · 11-08-2014, 02:59 PM

For god's sake, what on earth do you want from the government? You keep criticising like we are all part of this secret club keeping most of the region from exercising their rights. Can't you just see reality for what it is and admit that most nations simply want to be left alone.

I mean, seriously! During my delegacy we have made on of the biggest efforts to integrate both citizens and non-citizens to the regional community. You don't even need to be a citizen to work for any government institution. Instead of being constructive and helping us do some good, you keep criticising and spreading this myth about how the government really is.

It gets tiring to see how we do our best, and some people keep replying with cynicism, like our efforts don't mean anything.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System

TAC Saxton · 11-08-2014, 03:11 PM

@Ditortilla

Not everyone who plays NS is interested in the more in-depth mechanics created by the players. Some people either don't have the time, don't want all the drama that goes with it or simply just don't care. Blaming The Coalition does not serve to better the situation. On the contrary, it only serves to "justify" your opinion on the matter.

I am a Super Villain

Ditortilla · 11-08-2014, 07:33 PM

(11-08-2014, 02:59 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote: For god's sake, what on earth do you want from the government? You keep criticising like we are all part of this secret club keeping most of the region from exercising their rights. Can't you just see reality for what it is and admit that most nations simply want to be left alone.

I mean, seriously! During my delegacy we have made on of the biggest efforts to integrate both citizens and non-citizens to the regional community. You don't even need to be a citizen to work for any government institution. Instead of being constructive and helping us do some good, you keep criticising and spreading this myth about how the government really is.

It gets tiring to see how we do our best, and some people keep replying with cynicism, like our efforts don't mean anything.

Once again Kris it looks like I've touched a nerve with you

You have indeed made efforts to make the process more inclusive but if these have not been successful and there has been no influx of participants then it is right to ask why not

What are you doing that is turning people off from taking part - they obviously had some interest to register in the first place, so why did they stop after the first hurdle?

Did they see a lack of opportunity? Do they find it and unwelcoming environment? Were they discouraged by the in-fighting? Has it become an exclusive club not by design but simply because nobody wants to join it?
Where is the incentive to join? There is a massive difference between what we claim to be and what we actually are - ignoring that disparity does not make it go away

The cynic in me whispers that the coalition do not want to increase participation because an influx of new blood might upset the cosy equilibrium - look at what happened to Escade

I would be happy to silence that whisper if I saw an improvement in the way we handle things, but so far any expressions of doubt or questioning that are presented to The Coalition are met with suspicion or downright hostility - I have been on the receiving end repeatedly in my time here - only Tsunamy has ever hinted that he accepts there is a problem, the rest of the "activists" either become extremely defensive or make like an Ostrich

Gustave Berr · 11-08-2014, 07:41 PM

(11-08-2014, 07:33 PM)Ditortilla Wrote:
(11-08-2014, 02:59 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote: For god's sake, what on earth do you want from the government? You keep criticising like we are all part of this secret club keeping most of the region from exercising their rights. Can't you just see reality for what it is and admit that most nations simply want to be left alone.

I mean, seriously! During my delegacy we have made on of the biggest efforts to integrate both citizens and non-citizens to the regional community. You don't even need to be a citizen to work for any government institution. Instead of being constructive and helping us do some good, you keep criticising and spreading this myth about how the government really is.

It gets tiring to see how we do our best, and some people keep replying with cynicism, like our efforts don't mean anything.

Once again Kris it looks like I've touched a nerve with you

You have indeed made efforts to make the process more inclusive but if these have not been successful and there has been no influx of participants then it is right to ask why not

What are you doing that is turning people off from taking part - they obviously had some interest to register in the first place, so why did they stop after the first hurdle?

Did they see a lack of opportunity? Do they find it and unwelcoming environment? Were they discouraged by the in-fighting? Has it become an exclusive club not by design but simply because nobody wants to join it?
Where is the incentive to join? There is a massive difference between what we claim to be and what we actually are - ignoring that disparity does not make it go away

The cynic in me whispers that the coalition do not want to increase participation because an influx of new blood might upset the cosy equilibrium - look at what happened to Escade

I would be happy to silence that whisper if I saw an improvement in the way we handle things, but so far any expressions of doubt or questioning that are presented to The Coalition are met with suspicion or downright hostility - I have been on the receiving end repeatedly in my time here - only Tsunamy has ever hinted that he accepts there is a problem, the rest of the "activists" either become extremely defensive or make like an Ostrich

Not really sure what any of this has to do with Article 4, my suggested amendment, or the subsequent other versions of the language.

United States of Kalukmangala

Former High Court Justice

~~Unibot~~ · 11-08-2014, 09:19 PM

It doesn't have much to do at all with your suggestion. I'd like to see this discussion shifted back to Gustave's proposal and my proposal.

Gustave's proposal. A charter amendment.

Quote:4. The High Court may declare any whole General Law, or portions within such law, that conflict with the Charter defunct, and to reconcile contradictions within the Charter.
5. In response to a Legal Question, the High Court may declare the actions or inaction of any citizen to be illegal, and compel restitution by a formal Court Order.
6. The High Court holds the sole power to remove citizenship outside of regular legislation that outlines reasonable upkeep requirements or security imperatives.
7. Procedures for the Election of High Court Justices will be defined in the Code of Laws.

Unibot's proposal. A Code of Laws Amendment.

Quote:1. If charges are filled against a citizen the case will be held in the High Court.
2. A justice may file charges against a citizen, provided they recuse themselves from the case.
2. The Chief Justice will be responsible for keeping order in the court. He has the power to penalize citizens for being in contempt of the court.
3. The Chief Justice and Court Justices, in conjunction with the Assembly, are responsible for establishing a consistent and just set of procedures for hearing criminal cases. This set of procedures must be ratified by the Assembly as a General Law.
4. Excessive absenteeism from the prosecution may result in the summary dismissal of the case. Excessive absenteeism from the defense may result in a summary judgment against the defendant.

TAC Saxton · 11-08-2014, 09:52 PM

I think the word "restitution" is too vague given what the proposal applies to.

The wording in Unibot's proposal is more fitting.

I am a Super Villain

Gustave Berr · 11-09-2014, 03:29 AM

I agree. I like Unibot's language, and think it is more appropriate and applicable than my suggested language.

United States of Kalukmangala

Former High Court Justice

Ditortilla · 11-09-2014, 08:26 AM

(11-08-2014, 07:41 PM)Gustave Berr Wrote:
(11-08-2014, 07:33 PM)Ditortilla Wrote:
(11-08-2014, 02:59 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote: For god's sake, what on earth do you want from the government? You keep criticising like we are all part of this secret club keeping most of the region from exercising their rights. Can't you just see reality for what it is and admit that most nations simply want to be left alone.

I mean, seriously! During my delegacy we have made on of the biggest efforts to integrate both citizens and non-citizens to the regional community. You don't even need to be a citizen to work for any government institution. Instead of being constructive and helping us do some good, you keep criticising and spreading this myth about how the government really is.

It gets tiring to see how we do our best, and some people keep replying with cynicism, like our efforts don't mean anything.

Once again Kris it looks like I've touched a nerve with you

You have indeed made efforts to make the process more inclusive but if these have not been successful and there has been no influx of participants then it is right to ask why not

What are you doing that is turning people off from taking part - they obviously had some interest to register in the first place, so why did they stop after the first hurdle?

Did they see a lack of opportunity? Do they find it and unwelcoming environment? Were they discouraged by the in-fighting? Has it become an exclusive club not by design but simply because nobody wants to join it?
Where is the incentive to join? There is a massive difference between what we claim to be and what we actually are - ignoring that disparity does not make it go away

The cynic in me whispers that the coalition do not want to increase participation because an influx of new blood might upset the cosy equilibrium - look at what happened to Escade

I would be happy to silence that whisper if I saw an improvement in the way we handle things, but so far any expressions of doubt or questioning that are presented to The Coalition are met with suspicion or downright hostility - I have been on the receiving end repeatedly in my time here - only Tsunamy has ever hinted that he accepts there is a problem, the rest of the "activists" either become extremely defensive or make like an Ostrich

Not really sure what any of this has to do with Article 4, my suggested amendment, or the subsequent other versions of the language.

It centres on the definition of a Citizen according to the Charter/Coalition

***Tsunamy*** · 11-09-2014, 10:02 AM

I see where Ditortilla is going with this. And yes -- the Charter was originally written by a small number of nations and revised by other small numbers of nations.

But -- that said -- there's an inherent flaw to suggesting people of the region can't be expected to obey the Charter -- they're still protected under it. The Charter is what stops Kris -- or any delegate -- from ejecting everyone from the region.

The point of the off-site government is to get around the in-game bias toward authoritarianism.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

~~Unibot~~ · 11-09-2014, 02:51 PM

(11-09-2014, 03:29 AM)Gustave Berr Wrote: I agree. I like Unibot's language, and think it is more appropriate and applicable than my suggested language.

Alright, I'll motion it to vote then.