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**Belschaft** · 02-01-2015, 10:22 PM

I don't see it as a loophole Escade, as I fundamentally think that we should give more electoral weight to people involved in both the in game region and the forum.

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Escade · 02-01-2015, 10:37 PM

How does that fundamentally change the power dynamic? Basically it gives people like me more power anyway, which I already have, and people who aren't on the forums a little more but still 1/2 half mine. "Entrenched" and "old guard" are words that come to mind since effectively people like me who are on both have twice the say as everyone else and business proceeds as usual since that's majority.

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Hileville · 02-01-2015, 10:45 PM

It wouldn't be quite business as usual. There would be a power shift towards the simple majority of forum goers to those who dedicate their WA to TSP. Which is something we haven't really rewarded for some quite some time.

Escade · 02-01-2015, 10:47 PM

Thanks Hileville, I wasn't thinking of it that way and I actually do like that. I wonder if there was a way to diffuse the power of the second vote such as 75% WA on-site and 25% forum or some other ratio that makes is clear that the goal is to reward the WA faithful (with maybe some exceptions made to the army so being WA mobile isn't punishment).

Escade

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~~Unibot~~ · 02-01-2015, 11:33 PM

I don't think that we need to reward "the WA faithful", they already do a good job reminding everyone else of how more more special and valuable they are to the region. Or at least, those of them that keep pushing for reforms to disenfranchise everyone else.

Giving WAs two votes, effectively gives non-WAs a half-a-vote in our Assembly. Non-WA citizens are not half-citizens and it's about time that we moved on from Belschaft's medieval politics and treated our non-WA citizens with some respect and dignity, especially when some of them have contributed quite a lot to The South Pacific.

Quote:You cannot guarantee one vote per person in either your, Bel's, or any other proposal I have seen that gives WA nations a vote.

Most people are inclined to follow the rules and we could it make it a crime (election fraud) to vote twice. I think we could identify those that were voting twice.

(This post was last modified: 02-01-2015, 11:39 PM by Sandwich Territories.)

Escade · 02-01-2015, 11:54 PM

I actually disagree, Unibot. What are the barriers to having a WA nation in a region? Very low barriers because most people in this day and age have an email.

What are the benefits to the region if people become WA faithful?
- Support to the legally elected delegate and the CSS therefore supporting the security of the region
- Support to the protection of the region in case some rogue elements try to hostile takeover
- The general value that comes with being faithful to any entity (aka this isn't that Chris Brown song)

The only people who don't need to be WA faithful are the TSP army and that is because they need to be WA mobile but they are visible and can get special exemptions. Everyone else, who refuses supporting the WA region, is doing so at the detriment of the region.

I understand cosmopolitanism but I actually think that your WA region shows where you're heart is. Or isn't. Which one is the main chick and which is the mistress?

Escade

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**Belschaft** · 02-02-2015, 12:11 AM

Damn right Escade.

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***Kris Kringle*** · 02-02-2015, 12:14 AM

Or someone simply doesn't want to put their WA in this region, for whatever personal, historical or other reason they might have, and that is entirely legitimate.

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~~Unibot~~ · 02-02-2015, 12:16 AM

Quote:I understand cosmopolitanism but I actually think that your WA region shows where you're heart is. Or isn't. Which one is the main chick and which is the mistress?

This is baloney.

First, for most of my TSP career, I've been a defender. Why? Because there are places that needed my WA nation more than TSP. Regions under invasion. Regions under occupation. Regions like The South Pacific under Milograd that were in desperate need of help. That's a cause I couldn't serve under the SPSF, but I don't think it is a cause that should disfranchise me.

Second, I am currently serving as The Rejected Realm's delegate. Regions aren't "chicks", they're communities and your involvement in them isn't "zero sum". You build friendships and obligations to them. It's only a "zero sum" effort... an "Us v.s Them" relationship.... if we MAKE it so. We do not benefit from labelling some people, "loyal members" on the arbitrary identification of their WA nation.

There are some people who have dedicated their career to working in TSP and do not have their WA Nation in TSP for good reason - they're excellent citizens. There are also horrible citizens who have their WA Nation in TSP who don't deserve an inch of extra recognition or status or trust - which proves just how poor, a "WA Nation" is as a test of loyalty.

My ideal citizen would live and breathe the values of hard work, commitment, honesty, integrity and fidelity and respect for our law and our august democracy.

Belschaft's idealized citizen is someone with a WA Nation.

That's why I am a cosmopolitian. Because regionalism has, and always will be, spacious rubbish that attacks the freedom of individuals with nascent authoritarianism and prejudice of the will, spirit and good of others.

(This post was last modified: 02-02-2015, 12:29 AM by Sandwich Territories.)

Escade · 02-02-2015, 12:19 AM

Kris, can you provide examples of some legitimate reasons?

See the thing I think of is people who want to be able to vote and politically participate in Assembly discussions but don't want to have their WA in this region (see NES for example). If you don't want to devote your WA to this region and aren't contributing in any other significant way then why the desire to get the political rights?

I can understand if people contribute a whole lot in a certain arena and maybe that can be a special case that so and so has done so much for the region over this period of time (maybe the Assembly votes on it) and now can have the political rights that go along with it (and I'm specifically thinking of people who have their own subforums or RP threads\etc.)

But otherwise if you're not helping to build it in some way (even the passive way of ensuring security) then why do you get the right to vote?

Escade

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