I just remembered something ....

I said earlier we weren't able to use the Prohibited Organisations section against The Empire, because The Empire never was hostile to TSP - but this wasn't true - The Empire was an accessory to Sedge and Crazygirl's coup of TSP. Biyah and Dali were in the channel and privy to knowledge about the coup. Whamabama, another Empire member, was actually supposed to inherit the delegacy from Sedge - his account was Goblins, or something like that. 

Biyah and Dali only reported the identities of those couping and stuff AFTER the coup was over. A few weeks later, even. Going public before that would have spoiled Wham's chances of taking the delegacy. And they only went public then because they realized if they went public first, Sedge and Crazygirl might be crushed in the upcoming TRR elections - they weren't, Sedge actually still won and subsequently, The Empire lost control of TRR too. 


Given this, The Empire squarely fits within the definition of hostility provided in Article 7: "actively involved and complicit in an attempt, successful or otherwise, to illegally overthrow the legitimate government of The South Pacific."


BOOM! I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier.

Reply

EVIDENCE OF THE EMPIRE'S INVOLVEMENT IN THE SEDGISTAN COUP

Lead members of The Empire were both complicit and actively involved in the attempt to coup The South Pacific (circa 2011). Biyah ("Lord Rahl" in The Empire), and Dalimbar ("Lady Anastasia") were aware of the leaders of the coupers before the coup ended  - and the former two attempted to reap private benefits from the coups. 

[....] While serving as Foreign Affairs Officer in The Rejected Realms, Sedge took control of the delegacy of The South Pacific under the nation Devonitians, using all native endorsements. Only Crazy Girl, who followed him to TSP shortly after he was elected delegate, was aware of Devonitians' identity prior to his seizure of the delegacy. Biyah and Dalimbar, also Officers of The Rejected Realms, discovered Sedge's identity and attempted to work with him to influence the outcome of the elections procedure he had begun. TRR Delegate Naivetry was informed of Sedge's identity shortly before the end of the coup, after Devonitians had forwarded correspondence to her concerning another nation's attempt to overthrow TRR, but was not privy to any other discussions which took place during the event.

During the coup and its aftermath, Sedge neither asked for nor received any help from The Rejected Realms. Biyah and Dali secretly assisted him in pursuit of their own private agenda. Crazy Girl's involvement was limited to chatting on the RMB and endorsing Devonitians (in compliance with his rules for election) shortly before he was forcibly removed from the delegacy. [....]

Sedgistan had not planned to involve The Empire in his plans; he only made them aware of his identity during the coup, after Dalimbar had mostly figured out the identity of the couper(s).

Dali had pretty much worked it out for himself, and was asking me about it. I confirmed it when it got to the point that I could no longer plausibly deny it to him. He then told Biyah. It wasn't a case of me boasting to them about it, or choosing to bring them on board. I know better than that.

Biyah and Dali became aware of the identity of the coupers (intelligence of liberations was leaked to Sedgistan because he was a former FRA member,) and did not report these coupers - instead, they assisted Sedgistan in pulling in invader support to protect the delegacy with the hope that Sedgistan would pass the delegacy off to a "couple others [they'd] selected".....

Pursuant to that, I hereby announce that Devonitians of recent TSP infamy is also known as Sedge, the Admin and Foreign Relations officer of TRR. Also privy to this knowledge and an active participant was CrazyGirl - who made a run to take the Delegacy from Dev - and Dali and Myself, who were made aware the day after he’d taken the delegacy. At Sedge's behest, we attempted to pull raider support into the region to hold the delegacy so Sedge could hand off the delegacy to CG or one of a couple others we'd selected.

One of these selected would-be coupers was GreenGremlins, aka. Whamabama ("Lady Tisiphone") who was nearly successful in trying to take over The South Pacific during Sedgistan's faux "elections" (free-for-all). Sedge said, in public:

What what? If CG had wanted the delegacy, she'd have been endo-swapping, rather than sitting on about 10 endorsements. GreenGremlins was the nation just 2 endorsements off taking the delegacy at the end, and that was the person I was trying to get the delegacy to, as no-one else had managed to get that close. The end being the time leading up to the update where I lost the delegacy. You may not have noticed it, but GreenGremlins was two endorsements behind Southern Bellz when the region updated. She only regained the seat due to endorsements from outsiders, whereas GreenGremlins was endorsed by natives only.

GreenGremlins claimed on the official forums:

I am not sure who Sedge is [...] It was Devonitians, who explained to me, that there was more to this game than answering issues, and voting in the WA.

When Southern Bellz returned to power, four nations were banned: Devonitians, FraternizingWithHumans, Scary Old Dude and, of course, GreenGremlins.

FraternizingWithHumans was likely the other player that The Empire hoped would reach the delegacy - that account was never unmasked. It's possible, although never confirmed that FraternizingWithHumans was New Kervoskia ("Lord Griffin",) especially because FraternizingWithHumans attended a "Crossfire" IRC debate as a 'special guest', while New Kervoskia actually did not attend his own talk-show (Dali, Biyah and Oliver lead the debate):

Spoiler

<OliverDionGrey> Good evening, everyone, and welcome to NS Crossfire. I'm Oliver Dion-Grey, your moderator, and tonight we're going to be talking about shocking (to some), and certainly fascinating coup which has taken place in The South Pacific.
<OliverDionGrey> To my right, Dali, the Canuck with the silver tongue!
* Dali salutes
<OliverDionGrey> To my left, Biyah, the man who takes no prisoners!
* Biyah raises a coffee mug.
<OliverDionGrey> Alright, by virtue of the coin toss, Dali has the first word of the evening on the subject, and Biyah will have the very last. In a sentence, Dali, your opening thoughts on the South Pacific coup?
<Dali> Only one? Fine. It's frankly a rather interesting continuation of the opportunistic struggles for the feeders.
<OliverDionGrey> Biyah?
<Biyah> Just another example of a lazy delegate who had the fact she's not invulnerable slapped in her face. Pretty much end of story, right there.
<Dali> Damn, a nice way to make friends, I guess.
<Biyah> I make friends? If I made friends, I've have bought you a real tie by now.
<OliverDionGrey> Well, that's all for tonight on... wait... no, I'm being told by the bug in my ear that I can't slack off on my second night on the job. Well, with that in mind, we're going to move right on to the first topic of the night. The new delegate has posted on the World Factbook Entry this phrase: "To hold power, one must use it" .. It's an interesting thought, but to Biyah, I ask: Is this a fair...
<OliverDionGrey> ...assessment?
<Biyah> Fair? All is fair in love and war, as the old adage goes. This is a political game, and the delegate wasn't just asleep on the job... I'm pretty sure she was AWOL. It's perfectly fair that someone who noticed this took action.
<Biyah> If she wanted fair, she should have kept her hand on the throttle.
<OliverDionGrey> That's not the question I asked, if you read it carefully, I'm afraid,.
* Dali chuckles
<Biyah> oh, one word off.
<Dali> He has selective hearing, remember.
<Biyah> the ... assessment threw me off. My bad.
<OliverDionGrey> Yeah, I'm used to hearing answers to the questions he wished I asked.
<Biyah> ... I'm the asshole here.
<OliverDionGrey> Aaand back to the question.
<Biyah> And, absolutely. Both as a philosophical point, and a political expedient. If you don't use your authority now and again, you might as well be playacting.
<OliverDionGrey> Dali?
<Dali> It's all fine an dandy to make philosophical statements like that when they have, from what I know, very little intention to do anything with that power, beyond boosting ones ego. It goes beyond simple power. It's easy for a person to point a gun at someones head and say they have power. However, real authority comes from hard earned respect and fortitude.
<Biyah> Peter the Terrible, Castro, Hitler, Stalin and Mao disagree.
<Biyah> I consider that a royal flush.
<OliverDionGrey> Quite the contentious group, which may be the understatement of the year.
<Dali> Your fan club, eh Biyah?
<Biyah> my idols. So?
<OliverDionGrey> There is something in the idea that those who wield power are those willing to do what it takes to hold it. It's literally a Machiavellian ideal, but surely there's something to it, or the ideas wouldn't have persisted so long. Dali?
<Dali> Look at JAL in TNP. It was a petty self-desire to boost his own ego that led him to do the purges there. It looks like the same for this guy. A delusional self-sense of power that while might in his mind have some value, it does nothing for the communities in play. The community, not the individual, is the real power.
<Dali> He has his 15 minutes of fame. But then he'll fade into the history books, while the feeder chugs along.
<OliverDionGrey> In return, Biyah, there's a strong sentiment that suggests that rulers who are willing to do terrible things to hold on to their power deserve neither the power nor the satisfaction it brings.
<OliverDionGrey> Thoughts?
<Biyah> That depends entirely upon the motivations of the person behind the acts. Evil for evil's sake is deplorable, evil for the good of all... though distasteful... has its place in the world.
<OliverDionGrey> Not that I want to get too deeply into the moral philosophy. It does bring us to an interesting question, though: Is this coup a good thing, or a bad thing? I'll let Biyah speak first.
<Biyah> So far, it's looking like it's for the good. The region is dead, the delegate listless - now we're finally seeing some life in the place.
<Dali> And letting petty opportunists the chance to pick at the carcass is fantastic idea, if he wants nothing to do with it after he has had his 15 minutes?
<Biyah> Maybe he's wise enough to know that he doesnt have what it takes to lead? Always send a general in to conquer the place first, then bring in the civilian suits.
<Dali> I'd have more respect for him if he wanted to at least try to build something. Or he could have given the Government of TSP a shot. I actually thought their Martial Law regulations were quite fair. Had an idea and want to challenge, then fine. Open for anyone, and gave people there a chance to get to know the individual who wants to rule over them.
<Biyah> Why get involved in a mechanism for a group that doesn't seem to care? That's pointless.
<Dali> I remember hearing that exact same comment from an individual who tried to coup TRR a few months back... though, shame I can't remember his name >_>
<Biyah> ... I can't recall. *whistles*
* Dali chuckles
<Dali> However, it gives him a legitimate excuse for the action, instead of you know, being instantly called a opportunist. It shows that he had some actual interest in the community, showed that he tried.
<Dali> Yet, no.
<OliverDionGrey> A related question, not quite identical, but with a broader scope... there's an argument that goes the only good thing in a game like this is activity, so therefore any sort of activity must be good activity. This would make any sort of feeder coup or the like a good thing, by definition. Dali, I'm fairly sure you disagree with this argument, what are your thoughts?
<Dali> Listen. When I couped TNP in 2007, I did it after numerous months of trying to put in reforms that were met with resistance from the establishment. I tried. I wanted my region to get into action, and saw the chances of that dimming if there was no real reason for them to do that. However, this guy didn't try. He just came in, took advantage of the situation, and states he really doesn't want to do anything with it.
<Biyah> ... and he got the same result as you, with 1/10th the time expenditure.
<OliverDionGrey> Care to expand on that a bit, Biyah?
<Dali> Mind you, as broken regions goes, TSP had nothing on TNP for abuse.
<Biyah> Looking at the TSP forums, delegate activity, and all the rest - it's obvious that the region is toast. Sure, he could have spent some time trying to work the system and get it going again. Instead, he's a realist who went straight to the heart of the matter.
<Biyah> I salute him
<Dali> And they'll probably see this thing through, get back down and cozy, and fall asleep again. Not really addressing the real problem, just went in there guns blazing.
<Biyah> Nobody can know that, there is always the hope that the region will be more.
<Biyah> Just because everyone brushed off their rouge when you left, doesnt mean this revolution won't stick
<OliverDionGrey> Biyah, with your extensive knowledge of history, can you think of a feeder coup that was legitimately bad?
<Dali> Oh please, look at every feeder, their coups, and what happens... they go back to sleep. And then someone else coups, cycle returns.
<Dali> Not productive at all.
<OliverDionGrey> On that note, Dali, are you arguing that coups are not a worthwhile method of generating activity?
<Biyah> The only one I'd consider 'bad' would be the original takeover of the Pacific. That was just done for the hell of it, not because the region was dead. The rest had their roots in activity, or war.
<OliverDionGrey> bit of a mess with two slightly linked questions, but you two can have at it for a bit
<Dali> It's certainly one way to do it, but as I say, not a productive one. Building a strong community that has people keeping an eye on each other, that builds up the community rather than tears it down, is the better way. Building better means of recruiting people to join in, instead of saying "No, my house, my rules"
<Biyah> On the contrary, recovery from war is one of the best ways to build a community. The coup itself might fail, but often the community comes together to say 'never again!' afterwards.
<Biyah> TEP was quite strong for a while, after the Empire.
<Dali> So, say TEP goes quiet again. Want someone to coup them, and repeat a cynical cycle that really becomes boring after a while?
<Dali> No one really is in arms over this.
<Biyah> Yes. Feeder communities are inherently unstable, they require a kick in the ass from time to time.
<Dali> No one really cares, except for a few people. This is an overdone play that gets old, and requires a new script.
<Biyah> Else you end up with idiots, like TWP. Or completely dead, like TP/TSP
<Biyah> And if TEP goes quiet again, I can think of a certain young lady who might want to remind them of their errors.
<Dali> And the cycle of overused propaganda continues, leading a temporary little bubble of unproductive fake activity, and then down into lala land.
<OliverDionGrey> Biyah, if you could expand some on the "inherent instability" argument, that would be great.
<Biyah> UCRs have to actively recruit to get people, they are naturally finding people who want to be active. Feeders arent, and most of their recruitment tactics are outdated and terrible. So, they end up with one solid core that is eventually whittled away.
<Biyah> So, eventually, the community either topples - or sinks into inactivity.
<OliverDionGrey> Dali, can a feeder actually build a stable community?
<Dali> The resident cynic could use a pick me up, I think.
<Biyah> It's only cynicism if I'm proven wrong. I havent been, NS history shows it
<Dali> A good number of communities have been lasting for years, building on new blood provided. Guess who is doing all the toppling? Petty. Opportunists. People who really do not care much for the community, with certaine exceptions of course... *cough*
<Biyah> Name me one community that has survived unscathed, in a feeder, and is still active.
<Dali> I'm not talking systems of governments, or regimes. I'm actually talking about community, the people who are incorporated into the feeder.
<Biyah> TRR: Just had a delegate changeover with lots of contraversy. TP - dead. TSP - couped. TWP - more or less inactive. TEP - kinda active, recently had a coup. TNP - yeah, it's TNP
* OliverDionGrey chuckles.
<Biyah> And I'm talking about feeder communities
<Dali> So, the people who actually live there before and after the wasteful coups are not a community? Only the Delegate of the day?
<Biyah> If they don't stay, they're not part of the community.
<Biyah> Simple as that.
<Biyah> If they don't have the fortitute to stick it out and fight (assuming they're active at all), they shouldnt be there.
<Dali> Sure. The ones who stay and fight are the ones who clean up from the mess made by the bloke at the top. I agree that they are the community. Not one person.
<Biyah> unless it's TSP, then it's one person. *coughs*
<OliverDionGrey> Well, we're going to take a five minute break, so we can get Southern Bellz a microphone, and probably searched for weapons as well. Mute's going to stay on, but please send me questions in a private message, if I want you to ask your question, I'll message back and give you a heads up, and then give you voice to ask it. Back in five, everybody.
<OliverDionGrey> We'll back in 2 minutes, folks, but I've only got a couple questions so far, please, send them along! It's better if you participate in the participation section.
=-= Mode #ns_crossfire +v Wham by Dali
<Wham> Tonights Crossfire is brought to you by the makers of Zims crack Cream. When your crack issa itching, remember to rub on some Zims crack cream, smooth cool relief for tha cracked crack.
* Biyah facepalms
=-= Mode #ns_crossfire -v Wham by OliverDionGrey
<Biyah> we need better sponsors.
* Dali snickers
=-= Mode #ns_crossfire +v southernbellz by OliverDionGrey
* Biyah salutes
<southernbellz> Is this thing on?
<OliverDionGrey> And we're back, with special guest Southern Bellz, currently the former delegate of The South Pacific.
* Dali waves
<Biyah> If you'd checked the mic 24 hours ago, you might still have a seat.
<southernbellz> Hello everyone.
<Biyah> Howdy
<Dali> Pst, this really is Former Delegates Anonymous. Tell us about yourself
<Biyah> LOL
<OliverDionGrey> Exercising one of the few priviliges outlined in my contract, I'll be asking the first question. Directed first at Southern Bellz, then at Dali, and then allowing Biyah to rebut their answers, I give you this. Biyah opened the show with these words: "Just another example of a lazy delegate who had the fact she's not invulnerable slapped in her face. Pretty much end of story, right there." Is this a fair assessment? I've also heard it said that the South Pacific "had this coming" for some time. Is there anything to that?
* Dali takes a sip of his coffee
* Biyah wonders if we somehow disconnected her mic
* Dali looks at Biyah
<Dali> I blame you.
<Biyah> PFft. This is why she's not delegate anymore.
<Biyah> course, I suppose this could be slow typing. In which case, I apologize.
<OliverDionGrey> To be fair to the former delegate, it was a rather large and rough question to start on.
<southernbellz> As a whole it is not a fair assessment of the situation. On the first half of the question, I failed to protect The South Pacific, and I will never deny that fact. And honestly I regret that the most because the TSP community is full of great people that deserve to have a stable community. To say that is the whole story, is pretty absurd though.
<Biyah> Ah, novel.
<Biyah> All is explained.
<southernbellz> To say this region "had it coming" is not accurate. What no one talks about and what Dali mentioned briefly is the fact that according to TSP law, anyone can run for delegate at ANY time, and has the power to cause MASSIVE reforms from within our system of government, because of that, there is no reason to start this sort of chaos if you are unhappy with the way things work.
<Dali> My curiosity is pretty much this: I saw a fair number of the old forum posters making posts on the RMB even before this, but why wasn't this guy tracked?
<Dali> Was there a plan in place if in case you were AWOL?
<Biyah> Further, it took 12 hours for anyone to reply on the forum that there even was an invasion. Why would anyone want to put themselves through that? They could grow old waiting to run for delegate.
<OliverDionGrey> Lets give her a minute to respond to the "where were you?" kinds of questions before piling on any further.
* Biyah pulls out his inner Tom Cruise. "I want the Truth!"
<Dali> You can't handle the truth.
<southernbellz> What happened was my activity was diminished, but I was still checking in fairly regularly. As the rogue delegate posted, it all happened in a matter of 36 hours. I don't think our region has had any sort of attack like that before, so it obviously caught us all by surprise, to gain 100+ endos in that amount of time is impressive. You need good scripts to do that.
<Biyah> Technical point, no you don't.
* OliverDionGrey waves.
<Biyah> I gained almost 140 in 12 hours by doing it by hand.
<OliverDionGrey> About 100 in 24 hours or so. Not meaning to take sides, but I did.
<southernbellz> As far as the 12 hour thing goes, I won't argue that TSP's forum can be slower than other regions, but to run for delegate you just need to post your statement of intent and our endorse the delegate.
<Biyah> So, you would have him follow a self-admittedly slow/dead forum's rules. And you blame him when he does it his way, and nobody even tries to stop him?
<Dali> I wasn't just asking about what were you up to. I'm more asking... where was Tsrill, or other major players there?
<southernbellz> Yes, we were the elected government of TSP. Everyone was always welcome to take part in our community.
<Biyah> 'Were'. I like that, you're a realist too.
<southernbellz> @ Dali: Other members of TSP were active in TSP at the time.
* Biyah reiterates '12 hours'
<Dali> Was there any effort, to your knowledge, made to say "Hey, want to join our forum and hang out?"
<southernbellz> On our end?
<Dali> Yea
<southernbellz> Well, we had the forum on our WFE.
<southernbellz> Inviting all nations to check it out if they are interested in the government
<southernbellz> and this guy seems to know what a WFE is
<Biyah> meaning, no.
<southernbellz> Meaning, everyone is invited. He wasnt given a personal invitation to the forum.
<OliverDionGrey> On that subject, we have a question from FraternizingWithHumans, a WA member in TSP who is currently making a push for the delegacy of his own.
=-= Mode #ns_crossfire +v FraternizingWithHumans by OliverDionGrey
<FraternizingWithHumans> Southern Bellz, if you get your position back, will you change your activity level to make the region more active? (for example, one of my endorsements was disappointed that you didn't actively vote in the World Assembly) But more importantly, after this, do you even want your position back?
=-= Mode #ns_crossfire -v FraternizingWithHumans by OliverDionGrey
<southernbellz> I can only change my activity level so I am more active. As one learns quickly as a feeder delegate, you can't simply will activity. Whenever any change happens there are always bursts, but long run activity comes from a community. If I reclaim my rightful place as delegate, I will continue to try to foster community growth
<southernbellz> As far as the World Assembly, I voted whenever I was telegrammed or it interested me personally, so my activity was a function of expressed regional interest
<southernbellz> And lastly yes.
<southernbellz> Hope that answered your question
* Biyah scratches his chin.
<OliverDionGrey> Dali, Biyah, any thoughts?
<Biyah> Since when does a small handful of people on a forum dictate 'rightful authority' to a feeder of hundreds?
<Dali> As a former Delegate of a feeder region myself, being a Delegate is highly stressful and takes away a lot of time. And god knows it's hard to leave the addiction that is the Delegacy. But, there seems to be a lot of voices clammouring for some sort of change.
<Biyah> You had the seat by the same right as Dev just took it, because you had the most endorsements. You proved you couldn't hold it, how do you have a 'right' to it now?
<southernbellz> There were regional laws set by the people of The South Pacific, so by that authority.
<Biyah> So, tyranny by minority.
<southernbellz> The handful of people, were the people that chose to take part in the setting of laws.
<Biyah> got it. Thanks, just wanted to clear that up
<OliverDionGrey> alrighty, we're going to add a few more South Pacific voices to the mix, and get a question from Earth while we're at it. Give me a second to voice everybody
=-= Mode #ns_crossfire +v FraternizingWithHumans by OliverDionGrey
=-= Mode #ns_crossfire +v LadyRebels by OliverDionGrey
<Biyah> Oooh
=-= Mode #ns_crossfire +v Earth by OliverDionGrey
<OliverDionGrey> Go for it, Earth.
<Earth> Is success in a feeder just luck and is it even possible, and if which feeder is best able to create it now?
=-= Mode #ns_crossfire -v Earth by OliverDionGrey
<Biyah> so... are we just yelling at eachother over the table? *pulls out a bullhorn*
<OliverDionGrey> Jump in, talk over each other.
<Biyah> oh, I'm good at that. heh.
<FraternizingWithHumans> A feeder does not have to focus on recruiting like userite regions do; instead, a feeder must focus on creating activity among its members.
<Dali> Of course not dear.
<Biyah> Where were you, creating activity, when the Bellz government still had power Frat? Were you even trying then?
<FraternizingWithHumans> Because of the great quantity of members in feeder regions, this task requires dedication.
<southernbellz> It is not luck, and success means very different things to different people. Spending time with the community of TSP has been the best time I have for years in NS.
<Biyah> What makes you think you can be a delegate now?
<FraternizingWithHumans> I will admit I have little feeder experience. But everyone starts from somewhere.
<southernbellz> The only person who I have even seen active in TSP before this is LR (and that is by TSP standards)
<Biyah> So you want to jump right into a chaotic situation and have fun, sweet.
<Dali> Frat, did you ever go on the forum and do a campaign via their laws?
<FraternizingWithHumans> If a region is unwilling to foster the growth of its members, then it doesn't deserve to have activity.
<Biyah> Oh, so her blood was flowing then... how about it LR, what do you think of this current situation?
<Biyah> And a little bird has told me YOU might be the new delegate. So I gotta know, are you?
<Dali> I would love it if someone here announced they are Devon. Any takers?
<FraternizingWithHumans> What I mean is that I do not know everything, but I am willing to learn.
<LadyRebels> Who is going to be new delegate?
<Dali> Beside CG.
<Biyah> No, I've been told you might very well be Dev.
<FraternizingWithHumans> I am obviously not he.
<southernbellz> I don't think a delegate is a good postion to learn on the job.
<Biyah> Frat, you've already seen old hands in TSP fail. Think you have what it takes to pick it up?
<Biyah> Can't do any worse than you bellz, but you're probably right.
<FraternizingWithHumans> I want to see TSP transition peacefully to an active region.
<Biyah> That isn't an answer.
<Dali> How will you do that?
<LadyRebels> I totally agree with SB on the "hands on training" but in all honesty you are talking to someone that got that hands on training the quick way
* Biyah remembers talking to you in TWP during FoCA - you've seen a lot.
<Biyah> But you also didnt answer the question. Inquiring minds want to know if you coup'd your own home region because you were disgusted with how things were going!
<FraternizingWithHumans> I will start by listening to advice, both from my endorsements and from those with more experience, even if the advice is given rudely.
<LadyRebels> Oh you think I am Dev? oh no
<Biyah> listening is a start. Plans for activity, do you think you can do better?
<LadyRebels> ROFLMAO
<Biyah> -I- don't think you're dev, but that rumor is starting to go around.
<Biyah> and I found it highly amusing
<LadyRebels> No I am not Dev, I would not suppress anything on the boards at a time like this.
<Biyah> Too bad, you could have been a very effective delegate. A lot of people still look to you as a rock of stability
<Biyah> So, why not? Why not run?
<FraternizingWithHumans> Regional activities are a start; from there, letting people in the region know about them. Personal TGs have been mentioned several times, and I quite like the idea.
<Dali> So, LR, say somehow in a hypothetical case you are now Delegate. What would you want to do with it? And please.... not vague ideas.
<Biyah> You sound like just about every junior NS player in the game, Frat. Have you any experience with cutthroat politics at all?
<LadyRebels> Personal TG's work great, but you also have to keep in mind that you lose a lot because they get bumped out
<LadyRebels> I would work my buttocks off and get activity back up, I would greet new nations and invite them to the boards in personal TG's just like I did when the boards first started
<Biyah> ... LR, you've got my vote. Go run!
<FraternizingWithHumans> I was born into NS in a coup like this, Biyah, and that's what it took to get me active. I want others to be able to join activity without this sort of insanity. And nations that think the game is boring need a welcoming hand to show them there's more to the game than doing issues until you repeat them.
<Dali> Codger, any comments from you?
<FraternizingWithHumans> It's a lot of work, but somebody's got to do it and coordinate it.
<LadyRebels> I can't I am not allowed on the off site fora and that honestly is where the history of TSP is.
<Biyah> So, you don't think coups are good for the health of a feeder, hmm? You don't think they act like forest fires, burning away the crap and allowing fresh new shoots to grow?
<Biyah> You're not allowed... why would TSP want to block such an illustrious member of their own past?
<FraternizingWithHumans> Where does this "trash" go, Biyah? To TRR, where you have to deal with it.
<Biyah> TRR was made for it, Nai has been polishing her Jackboots. We're ready
<FraternizingWithHumans> Have fun.
<Dali> CG can scare the ones who bother us
<LadyRebels> This coup in my eyes is something that is a great wake up call, now it is to arms and move forward. Keep in mind that the hard work has only just begun.
<Biyah> Do you think the old management should be allowed back, after failing so miserably?
<Dali> For all of you. Say none of you become Delegate. Are you still wanting to work for TSP?
<FraternizingWithHumans> Everyone deserves a second chance, Biyah.
<Biyah> Do they? Why?
<LadyRebels> As to the reason I am not allowed, most likely because years ago I lost my mind and went on a screaming kicking fight about things that were going on at that time.
<FraternizingWithHumans> Because they're human, Biyah, just like you and me.
<Biyah> ... do you deserve a second chance, LR?
<Biyah> Frat thinks you do
* OliverDionGrey chuckles.
<Biyah> I don't think I've gotten a second chance. I tend to burn bridges. *muses*
<Dali> Biyah isn't human.
<FraternizingWithHumans> Dali, if I don't become delegate, I can live with that. More than anything I want to see this situation resolved for the best of the region.
<Biyah> IF you believe in second chances, why are you running for delegate? is that not hypocrisy, should you not be supporing Bellz?
<FraternizingWithHumans> People deserve first chances, too.
<Biyah> You seem to have a firm grip on the 'Rainbows and Pupplies' TSP political party, but you seem to have some confused ideas. Should management get a second chance to set things straight? You seem to think so
<LadyRebels> I think the better question would be do I want a second chance....I have some very personal reasons as to why I would and should say no
<Biyah> Which means, you should be supporting the government. Which means, I'd assume, you should follow the forum rules for new government.
<Biyah> Instead, you're following the new delegates rules by applying from the official boards and swapping
<Biyah> What does this tell us about your character?
<Biyah> your moral fabric?
<Biyah> Why should we back you when you've already turned on your own tail here?
<Biyah> Too bad LR, it would be awesome to see you back there again.
<Dali> And SB, would you want these people, who are not following Government of TSP procedure for Delegate succession, as part of your community?
<OliverDionGrey> Well, if Biyah's done licking LR's boots, is there anything else we'd like to touch on?
<LadyRebels> and there are those that would stop that happening, after all I was labled a racist by the very ones that I was protecting at the time
<Biyah> .. they taste like chocolate.
* Biyah wonders if he just shellshocked the potential new delegate
<Dali> The smoke will clear eventually.
<FraternizingWithHumans> Biyah, if me being delegate can help transfer the region peacefully and legally, I don't care if I stay delegate.
<FraternizingWithHumans> I want the region to be active and stable.
* Biyah just saw the 'reboot' sign flash on Frat's forehead
<FraternizingWithHumans> If that's better accomplished by me gaining the power via Devonitian's rules and passing it off to a legally elected delegate, I'm ok with that.
<Biyah> I'll simplify the question. How can you support a second chance for the old failed delegate, when you are actively running yourself?
<Biyah> Ahh. Much better.
<southernbellz> Oh sorry Dali, I missed your question. But yes, I would welcome anyone in any TSP community I ran, and my track record has shown that.
<Biyah> So second chance be damned, it's time for the new to shine. By any mens necessary. I like it.
<southernbellz> With the exception of the current delegate of course.
<OliverDionGrey> Southern Bellz, we started this segment with a question for you, and I'm going to give you a couple quick minutes for some last words, before moving on to the final words with my regular panellists.
=-= Mode #ns_crossfire -v LadyRebels by OliverDionGrey
=-= Mode #ns_crossfire -v FraternizingWithHumans by OliverDionGrey
<Biyah> What makes the current delegate ineligible in your eyes, Bellz - the fact he beat you, or didn't follow your minority rules?
<southernbellz> Well, do you want to keep asking me questions or express closing thoughts?
<OliverDionGrey> feel free to respond to that, but moving towards closing thoughts relatively shortly
<southernbellz> The fact that regional law was violated is what makes him ineligible in my eyes. And you can keep calling it minority rule but every resident of TSP had both a say and a vote if they wanted to on all of our regional laws.
<OliverDionGrey> quick rebuttal/response from our two panellists (and I do mean quick)
<Biyah> Rules that nobody pays attention too. Nobody is active on the forum, there's not even enough life to fuel a zombie apocalypse.
<OliverDionGrey> Dali?
<Dali> There needs to be a better way for TSP to have to maintain activity. Coups are not a good method, but they really do need to come to their senses and make an effort to get more people on board.
<OliverDionGrey> Final thoughts from you, Southern Bellz (and you two will damn well let her talk for a moment)
<southernbellz> To address the idea that The South Pacific deserves to be taken over just because it is deemed inactive by some, while a slower paced region, TSP is home to a very unique community. Anyone is welcome and show up to be active in our community, and while there are disagreements, people work towards something better. Yes, I am sad I failed at protecting this community because I adore everyone in it, and I am deeply upset, be
<southernbellz> It is my opinion that the new delegate wants chaos for the sake of amusement, and that is no way to treat a community. I urge all members of The South Pacific to remove their endorsements from this new delegate in an effort to restore a community that protects the rights of its members to express themselves.
<southernbellz> Thanks for having me on the show.
<OliverDionGrey> Thanks for joining us!
=-= Mode #ns_crossfire -v southernbellz by OliverDionGrey
<OliverDionGrey> Final thoughts on the whole issue, Dali?
<Dali> This coup has been fantastic a short time, but as said earlier, there are fundamental problems that need to be addressed. And I just hope there is not just a Delegate who can address it, but a whole community.
<OliverDionGrey> Biyah?
<Biyah> What can I say, this is a clear cut case. Bellz was ineffectual and should be removed from the region. The new delegate has a job ahead of him, even if he only plans to be around for a short while... but the contenders who are coming up don't impress me at all.
<Biyah> Feeders are made to be couped, it's the natural order of things.
<Biyah> Thanks for coming, Bellz and the rest - sorry for the bruise marks, kinda. And... Viva la TSP!
<OliverDionGrey> Dali, would you like to say something ad-hominem and completely unwarranted about Biyah?
<Dali> He's a bastard who needs to be punted into the sea, where Keiga can deal with him. Also, he needs to get a wig or something.
<Biyah> I'll make one, out of your bow tie.
<OliverDionGrey> And we'll leave Biyah to close out the show by muttering about Dali's communist ties, or something like that.
<Biyah> And again, you reply late. Are you taking ques from Bellz now?
<Dali> No cigars for you then, Comrade.
<Biyah> That's fine, but I'm holding your rum hostage.
<Dali> Psh. I still have the keys to TNP's stash.
<OliverDionGrey> You have been watching NS Crossfire. To my right was Dali, the Canuck with the silver tongue, and to my left was Biyah, the man who takes no prisoners (and certainly took none tonight). Thank you for watching, and join us next time! I've been Oliver Dion-Grey, your moderator this evening. Goodnight, everyone, and remember, have Biyah and Dali spayed and neutered.

Whamabama, meanwhile, continued to play dumb on the official forums:

One reoccuring theme I have noticed is, this sence of entitlement. People get the impresion that the feeders actually belong to a select group of nations simply because they have the delegate with them, and have posted a seperate from the game forum. This simply isn't true. It's easier to hold onto the delegate spot because of it sure. Doesn't mean you own the region, and if that minority group loses it, doesn't mean that a wrong has been done. It simply means you no longer have the delegacy, which is alright, you have no more right to it than anyone else.

And as the old saying goes, use it or lose it. The group in TSP wasn't using their position in TSP, so they lost it. It's not just about security it was everything, they wasn't doing anything but keeping their nations alive.

If that is what you want to do, fine. Nothing wrong with that. But don't hold everyone in the region hostage over it.

Personally, I say good job Sedge. Your plan might not have worked, but at least the region might do something about the problem.

During 2012's April Fools, Whamabama made a vital error of sending his IPO shares from greengremlins to his main nation, which revealed greengremlins' identity....

1 year 304 days ago:  Whamaball (3,445) traded 3,445 share to Whamabama (248,344).
1 year 304 days ago:  Wham helsing (1,507) traded 1,507 shares to Whamabama (246,837).
1 year 304 days ago:  Wham (980) traded 980 shares to Whamabama (245,857).
1 year 304 days ago: Traveling spy (114) traded 114 shares to Whamabama (245,743).
[....]
1 year 304 days ago: Greengremlins (1,939) traded 1,939 shares to Whamabama (168,728).
1 year 304 days ago: Field Hockey Players (6,595) traded 6,595 shares to Whamabama (162,133).
1 year 304 days ago: Dominantion master (2,347) traded 2,347 shares to Whamabama (159,786).
1 year 304 days ago: Rohhirrim (2,007) traded 2,007 shares to Whamabama (157,779).
[...]

Overall, The Empire was both complicit and active in participating in the Sedgistan coup of TSP; they only later reported the identities of the coupers to the public after the coup failed, when releasing this information was politically convenient for Biyah and Dali (who hoped Sedgistan and Crazygirl would lose political support in TRR). Prior to the coup's failure they had hoped they may be able to secure the delegacy for themselves.

With The Empire's long history of subversion in, not only TSP, but in Osiris, TRR, and TEP - we find The Empire as having shown hostility to our region under Article 7.1-2 and seek to establish The Empire as a prohibited organisation in The South Pacific. 

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Is this a vote?

Abstain.

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