I'm going to throw my personal condemnation behind this candidate, who has shown a history of treason and deception against the legitimate government of TSP.

I would say that stating Liberatia has shown a history of treason is pretty defamatory when no case has been bought, regardless of the technical difficulties resulting from the loss of the previous forum, a loss which occurred whilst many of the present administration were in government,

Liberatias ban should either have been carried forward to prevent citizenship being granted or a trail for the alleged activities should have been implemented when this came to light

As the Administration has seen fit to grant citizenship, a statement that that citizen has participated in an act that would negate that right must surely be followed up through the proper channels or else should be retracted - Liberatia has not been tried for treason and therefore no member of this Assembly is entitled to state he is a traitor without first calling for a trial - or have we now decided that the Assembly can usurp the powers of the Judiciary at whim?

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Liberatia was not banned in this forum because the administrative team agreed that his previous ban was instituted in an irregular fashion and the Vice Delegate granted him citizenship because both the Cabinet and the Committee for State Security agreed that at this point he was not a threat to regional security.

Farengeto has every right to say that Liberatia committed treason when he tried to overthrow the Coalition because the facts are there. It would be a different matter if Farengeto suddenly accused you of committing treason without any proof. That doesn't happen in Liberatia's case.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
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Liberatia was not banned in this forum because the administrative team agreed that his previous ban was instituted in an irregular fashion

From what has been reported this hangs on the fact that there was never a Treason trial? Yet Members of the present Government have publicaly declared that Liberatia was guilty.

and the Vice Delegate granted him citizenship because both the Cabinet and the Committee for State Security agreed that at this point he was not a threat to regional security.

But not that he was innocent of Treason?

Farengeto has every right to say that Liberatia committed treason when he tried to overthrow the Coalition because the facts are there. It would be a different matter if Farengeto suddenly accused you of committing treason without any proof. That doesn't happen in Liberatia's case.

I'm sorry to labour the point Kris but if Liberatia is guilty of Treason then. unless there has been a pardon, he should not have citizenship:

Article 7: Penal Code

1. If found guilty of an act of treason, the offending nation will be immediately banned from the in-game region and offsite forums.

To grant a Traitor Citizenship makes a mockery of TSPs Code of Laws, and indicates that the current Administration is not prepared to enforce the very laws that we rely on

Alternatively to grant a member Citizenship but effectively proscribe them from every hold office due to past indiscretions diminishes Citizenship - if The Cabinet and CSS have ruled that Liberatia is sufficiently reformed to be re-integrated into the community then constantly dredging up past misdemeanors is bad form to say the least.

Would Milograd be granted citizenship?

(This post was last modified: 06-15-2014, 08:05 AM by Chancellor of Admonora.)

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Milograd is banned from this region. Liberatia is not banned from this region and as a citizen is free to run for office. We still have a right to question his qualifications.

I insist, we can say that the actions Liberatia committed are worthy of treason. That is not defamation, since it is something that did happen. Personally I won't bring charges because time has passed, evidence will be hard to find and no actual harm came to the Coalition. I can't speak for everyone, and someone else is free to bring charges.

To answer your first question in that last post: no. His administrative team was lifted because he was banned for having multiple accounts, but that was not a bannable offense at the time.

To answer your second question: yes. We still think he committed treason, but at the present moment is not a threat to the region. We preferred to err on the side of leniency.

Third question: if he has not been convicted then there is nothing preventing him from getting citizenship. We could have denied it on security grounds, but like I said, we thought he was not a threat, despite of what he did. Comparing him to Milograd is very disproportionate, and ignores the scope of what each did or didn't do.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System

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Ok here is my question to the Citizen of TSP that is running for this office.

How do you feel about proxy voting?

Understand that the person requesting the proxy voter will have been around for the debates and discussion period before voting, so the "they are not informed enough to cast a vote" arugement is null and void.

My one and only Minion is Rebs.
Now to reclaim my crown.
It is a location joke.
All those who wander are not always lost...
The voices inside of my head get along with the monsters under my bed that do bone dances with the skeletons in my closet while the disco ball hangs by a thread...
one of the1st Delegates of TSP...she went crazy..naw she was already bonkers...

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We still think he committed treason, but at the present moment is not a threat to the region. We preferred to err on the side of leniency.

Just to clarify. As Delegate of this region, and therefore Head of State, are you seriously telling me that the state, believing that one of its citizens has committed treasonous acts, is not prepared to act and enforce our Code of Laws?

Comparing him to Milograd is very disproportionate, and ignores the scope of what each did or didn't do.

Are there degrees of Treason?

If not then Liberatia and Milograd ARE comparable on this issue, the only difference being that Liberatia never faced a trail.

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We still think he committed treason, but at the present moment is not a threat to the region. We preferred to err on the side of leniency.

Just to clarify. As Delegate of this region, and therefore Head of State, are you seriously telling me that the state, believing that one of its citizens has committed treasonous acts, is not prepared to act and enforce our Code of Laws?

In the end I was the one to allow Liberatia citizenship. If you have a problem with that please speak to me.

Comparing him to Milograd is very disproportionate, and ignores the scope of what each did or didn't do.

Are there degrees of Treason?

If not then Liberatia and Milograd ARE comparable on this issue, the only difference being that Liberatia never faced a trail.

Officially, no. Unofficially, yes. Milograd went rouge when he was delegate, and ejected quite a few nations. Liberatia declared intent to coup, but never even became delegate. People will tend to think worse of Milograd because his actions had quite a large impact, while Liberatia's didn't.


Shouldn't this debate be in the Assembly, or the Operations Center instead of in Election Central

(This post was last modified: 06-15-2014, 01:38 PM by Arbiter08.)

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Arbiter PM sent

As the matter was raised in this thread then it is appropriate that it be discussed here as it has immediate relevance to the election

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If you feel so strongly about this issue then feel free to press charges Ditortilla. If not, don't criticize people for not doing something you yourself can't be bothered with.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

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I would still like the candidate to please answer my question.

My one and only Minion is Rebs.
Now to reclaim my crown.
It is a location joke.
All those who wander are not always lost...
The voices inside of my head get along with the monsters under my bed that do bone dances with the skeletons in my closet while the disco ball hangs by a thread...
one of the1st Delegates of TSP...she went crazy..naw she was already bonkers...

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