I'm going to second the point that it has always been difficult to find people to appoint to positions such as these.  I mean we're still struggling to fill seats in the Legislator Committee that was proposed under the same idea - how will this be any different?  

Justices are probably easier to find than LegComm members. Glen, Bel, and Faren are obviously three willing candidates worth including just off the top of my head without thinking about it.

Then, should an associate justice be held to the same requirements as a Chief Justice in not holding other cabinet or government positions? 

In the absence of Chief Justice they fulfill the same role and have similar powers so it seems like they should be held to the same requirements.  Again, trying to reduce overlap between the three branches (legislative, executive, and judicial) would keep from consolidating power in limited hands. 

As Seraph already said, the associate justices are not firewalled by design, for the reasons that nakari already mentioned so eloquently.

Considering this as well, technically two associate justices may compel any institution or member to provide information (to an extent) and less room for overlaps or COIs would be preferable:
"(5) The assigned justice may, as necessary, request information, evidence, or opinions from any member or institution. With the approval of another justice, a member or institution may be compelled to answer such a request."

An involved justice would be recused. So if it's a case about the Cabinet and an associate justice is a Cabinet member, they would obviously be recused.

Then, can a member of the CRS hold a judicial position? 

Yes. We already have that now. If a case regarding the CRS came up, CRS-judges would have to recuse, of course.

It appears to me that several of your worries could be addressed by making sure that recusals in certain cases are mandatory. Would that work for you?

I also wonder if we want to extend 72 hours as the minimum case time or allow for a provision for a member who missed the three day period to revisit the case or issue?

I have no issue with that, so long as it's not so long as to become unwieldy. What would you suggest?

Finally, this
"(3) Material that is of a personal nature, such as revealing personally identifiable information or would otherwise unreasonably violate personal privacy, may be provided to the Court on a confidential basis, and published in a redacted form only if a reasonable person could not deduce the identity being protected."

I think that as much as possible we should protect people's rights to personal privacy and in no way contribute to the culture of doxxing.  If there is a court case its not going to be an OOC situation which would be dealt with admin. Instead it will be an IC situation. Therefore, can we make this strong in wording so that its highly discouraged to use personal information at all in court cases.  Or perhaps provide an example (other than IP and multi-ing situations) where it would be necessary to provide any personal information at all. 

Yeah this is supposed to be about IC stuff that may, as part of gathering evidence or such, inadvertently include RL information. I do have a good example - for example, see this post. This is an IC conversation, but the log was edited to remove RL information contained in it.

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I do hope we don't treat Associate Justice positions as side jobs that we can hold in addition to executive positions. That was an issue some years ago.


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Former Delegate of the South Pacific
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I do hope we don't treat Associate Justice positions as side jobs that we can hold in addition to executive positions. That was an issue some years ago.

The idea was explicitly that they aren't firewalled, so that Glen for example could be both MoFA and associate justice.

What issues were there?

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It would be an issue if Associate Justice starts being treated as a way to have a position while you're in between positions, or as a fallback in case you aren't respected. It should be treated as a position on equal footing as Chair or Minister.


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
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It would be an issue if Associate Justice starts being treated as a way to have a position while you're in between positions, or as a fallback in case you aren't respected. It should be treated as a position on equal footing as Chair or Minister.

I should have been more clear - specifically, what issues have there been in the past? Regarding your hypothetical, somebody that isn't respected isn't going to get an associate justice job.

I don't see why it should be a problem if a MoFA and associate justice were to rule as associate justice on a case about the LC.

(This post was last modified: 02-17-2018, 02:16 PM by Roavin.)

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There were times, during the pre-Permanent Justices judiciary, that positions in the Court were treated as jobs you got if you hadn't been elected to the Cabinet, or positions from which you were good to resign if you managed to get a job in the Cabinet. That is as opposed to important and equally respectable jobs in their own right.

In that sense, I'm not referring to anything in your draft, rather I'm warning people against falling into that same trap, treating a hypothetical position of Associate Justice as a side job that they hold in addition to a "main job" as Minister, Chair or Deputy Minister. Both jobs are important, and we can't have people treating the Court as a secondary branch.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System

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Ah, I see. I don't necessarily disagree, though that's more a cultural thing and I'm still opposed to firewalling associate justices under this model.

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I wasn't talking about your draft.


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System

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The real question is, does the SPP like it?

And does the IDP like it, but nobody cares about that.

Midwesterner. Political nerd. Chipotle enthusiast. 
Minister of Culture of the South Pacific // Former Prime Minister

(This post was last modified: 02-17-2018, 07:14 PM by North Prarie.)

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I'm not sure either of those are 'the real question[s]' as this was mostly drafted by Roavin when he was in TIL with input from the court reform group TIL and APC formed before either of our parties existed...

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Founder of the Church of the South Pacific [Forum Thread] [Discord], a safe place to discuss spirituality for people of all faiths and none (currently looking for those interested in prayer and/or "home" groups);
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Yahweo usenneo ir varleo, ihraneo jurlaweo hraseu seu, ir jiweveo arladi.

Salma 145:8

translate

The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.
Psalm 145: 8

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