Users browsing this thread:

God-Emperor · 06-12-2014, 04:06 PM

So do imperialist regions. :ninja:

The Third Imperium
Journalist, South Pacific Independent News Network (SPINN)
Provost, Magisterium
Sergeant, East Pacific Sovereign Army
Journalist, East Pacific News Service
Foreign Affairs Minister, The West Pacific

***Kris Kringle*** · 06-12-2014, 04:08 PM

Please do name our enemies. I would love to know who they are.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System

***sandaoguo*** · 06-12-2014, 04:12 PM

(06-12-2014, 04:04 PM)Belschaft Wrote: R/D is arbitrary military gameplay in random UCR regions. Raiders seize a random founderless region, defenders try to take it off them. There is no reason for military gameplay to be organized on such a basis. The tools are common, the way they are used isn't. An independent region defends its allies and attacks its enemies.

There's a very obvious reason why "military gameplay [is] organized on such a basis." It's the only way to do "military gameplay." Aside from raiding or defending, there is literally nothing else.

So when you want to say "TSP should only defend its allies and attack it's enemies," don't say "the key objective is to explicitly remove us from R/D." Because defending an ally is still defending, and attacking an enemy is still raiding. Just because you call it something else doesn't change what it is. You won't go to the UDL or FRA for help attacking an enemy, and you won't going to the UIAF for help defending an ally.

That's all very much beside the point, because it assumes TSP actually has enemies anyways. The only "enemy" we have is a Nazi coalition, in a war that several other military forces has declared a victory against GGR. There are no other boogeymen in NS to attack without controversy. Nobody is going to attack TSP, either, anytime soon. So the SPSF, if it's going to be active, is going to either raid random regions or defend random regions. Like all military forces in NS do. And like all other "Independent" forces, there's going to be some made up justification for how this random region is particularly in TSP's interests, or nobody's going to bother asking the question at all in the first place. "Defending our allies and attacking our enemies" an empty phrase, and not least because it's something everybody of all ideologies advocates.

Edit: Scratch that, we have two enemies. Gatesville is also a "enemy," though Gatesville doesn't even really exist anymore.

(This post was last modified: 06-12-2014, 04:20 PM by Tsunamy.)

God-Emperor · 06-12-2014, 04:16 PM

Since when do defenders advocate attackin' their enemies?

The Third Imperium
Journalist, South Pacific Independent News Network (SPINN)
Provost, Magisterium
Sergeant, East Pacific Sovereign Army
Journalist, East Pacific News Service
Foreign Affairs Minister, The West Pacific

***Kris Kringle*** · 06-12-2014, 04:18 PM

Time to make another poster. Wink

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System

**Belschaft** · 06-12-2014, 04:21 PM

(06-12-2014, 04:08 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote: Please do name our enemies. I would love to know who they are.

TSP is in a declared state of war against Gatesville and the Greater German Reich, and is a signatory of a treaty of coalition against the GGR and any regions that provide them with "comfort", which includes a variety of other far right groups.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

PREVIOUS ROLES

(This post was last modified: 06-12-2014, 04:22 PM by Gordon Freeman.)

***sandaoguo*** · 06-12-2014, 04:22 PM

(06-12-2014, 04:16 PM)God-Emperor Wrote: Since when do defenders advocate attackin' their enemies?

Since always? What defender region has ever had a policy of sitting by passively while their enemies are attacking them? Who, as a defender in TSP, has ever said that we shouldn't attack our enemies? Being defender doesn't preclude going to war with an enemy.

**Belschaft** · 06-12-2014, 04:27 PM

(06-12-2014, 04:12 PM)Sandaoguo Wrote:
(06-12-2014, 04:04 PM)Belschaft Wrote: R/D is arbitrary military gameplay in random UCR regions. Raiders seize a random founderless region, defenders try to take it off them. There is no reason for military gameplay to be organized on such a basis. The tools are common, the way they are used isn't. An independent region defends its allies and attacks its enemies.
You won't go to the UDL or FRA for help attacking an enemy, and you won't going to the UIAF for help defending an ally.

We have collaborated with our ally UIAF on a number of defensive operations, most notably in Osiris.

Neither the FRA or UDL is an ally of TSP, and yet we have worked with both groups on multiple occasions. As both are defender organizations that do not recognize the sovereign right of regions to launch offensive operations, such collaboration as you suggest would be impossible.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

PREVIOUS ROLES

**Belschaft** · 06-12-2014, 04:29 PM

(06-12-2014, 04:22 PM)Sandaoguo Wrote:
(06-12-2014, 04:16 PM)God-Emperor Wrote: Since when do defenders advocate attackin' their enemies?

Since always? What defender region has ever had a policy of sitting by passively while their enemies are attacking them? Who, as a defender in TSP, has ever said that we shouldn't attack our enemies? Being defender doesn't preclude going to war with an enemy.

Actually, both UDL and FRA reject the concept entirely. Of the big three defender groups only TITO endorses offensive action.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

PREVIOUS ROLES

***sandaoguo*** · 06-12-2014, 04:46 PM

(06-12-2014, 04:29 PM)Belschaft Wrote: Actually, both UDL and FRA reject the concept entirely. Of the big three defender groups only TITO endorses offensive action.

The UDL and the FRA are defender interregional organizations, rather than defender regions. There's also Lazarus, Wintreath, Spiritus, and TRR, off the top of my head. If they had enemies that could be directly attacked, and there was a declared war, then I would be surprised if they didn't do it when the perfect opportunity arose. As far as I'm aware, the only one of those regions at war with somebody is TRR against TNI, and TNI has a founder. So "attack" for these defenders groups normally means "defend against their raids," which the FRA and the UDL (and definitely Lazarus) all do, if I'm not mistaken.

The point being, of course, that nobody in TSP who identifies as a defender has ever advocated that TSP cannot declare wars against its enemies. I actually voted for the declaration of war on Gatesville. This is just a strawman argument to make ideologies other than Independence seem unreasonable.

(This post was last modified: 06-12-2014, 04:48 PM by Tsunamy.)