| Mallorea and Riva's citizenship |
(06-20-2014, 01:39 PM)Sandaoguo Wrote: I think it's pretty dumb to limit treason to only citizens, even if that's the meaning of the term in the real world. A coup d'etat should come with the same punishment, no matter a person's citizenship. That's an amendment we should consider for the Charter. I would say that treason can only apply to residents, regardless of citizenship. That is what I got from reading the definition in the Code of Laws (which makes reference to both nations and citizens, as if treason applied to both) and the provision in the Bill of Rights extending Court jurisdiction to all residents, not just citizens. While we are at it, I think we should revisit the definition of citizenship, especially those last parts about not endorsing the Delegate or disclosing one's WA nation during a SoE. Personally I don't think those should be considered acts of treason. (06-20-2014, 01:39 PM)Sandaoguo Wrote: I don't think there's a temporal aspect to being a security risk, when it comes to Mall at least. He has a repeated history of organizing coups. Merely because he is not actively planning one right now doesn't make him any less of a threat. We will never know that he is planning one until it is borne out, by which time it's too late to take any preventive measures. Nobody knew he was going to participate in Milograd's coup or in the Brotherhood of Malice's takeover of Osiris. But that didn't make him any less of a true threat in those regions. It just meant people were ignorant. Given his gameplay philosophy and his history, it would be a mistake for us to turn a blind eye. (Emphasis mine) That I could agree to. I still am not 100% sure of how much of a security risk he is, but at the same time I do feel that it would be a mockery to give citizenship to someone that tried to overthrow the Coalition, purging thousands of South Pacifican nations in the process, as I said in #1 of my previous post. (06-20-2014, 01:39 PM)Sandaoguo Wrote: I don't think there's anything legally stopping Arbiter from rescinding the application, because the Vice Delegate's decision is merely conditional. There's a small problem that Arbiter accepted it, rescinded it, then accepted it again, and that might be reason for a fuss from some people. But legally, Arbiter can say, "After consultation with the CSS and the Cabinet, your conditional acceptance has been rescinded and your application has been denied due to security concerns surrounding your history of organizing GCR coups (including Milograd's)." Just as long as no final decision is made beforehand, meaning he's not masked before rejection. That sounds about right. Do we agree on rescinding the pre-approval? Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System
Who is going to say that though? I mean ... to argue in Mall's favor is to argue in favor of a known enemy of the region. It's a bit of an untenable position, I feel.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
(06-21-2014, 11:15 AM)Tsunamy Wrote: Who is going to say that though? I mean ... to argue in Mall's favor is to argue in favor of a known enemy of the region. It's a bit of an untenable position, I feel. Who's going to say what? Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System
Maybe my drunk brain was reading something that wasn't there. I thought someone, somewhere made a comment of how people would react/say/etc.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
Glen mentioned that people might make some fuss if Arbiter rescinded his pre-approval because he had done so once already, but not because someone was arguing in favour of Mall. I think his point was about the Cabinet not appearing to make up its mind about approving or denying citizenship, by constantly approving and rescinding approvals.
Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System
Oh, that's right. Well fuck them.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
(06-21-2014, 02:33 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: Oh, that's right. Well fuck them. That's the spirit! 
Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System
So, should we vote on this or something? Mall is bugging us about his citizenship masking.
For the record, the suggestion is for Arbiter to deny the application based on his orchestration of the Milograd coup, and his history with other GCR coups. He would be able to appeal that decision to "the appropriate officials" (which I assume is us), per the Bill of Rights. If we're voting, I vote aye.
I agree. Individuals who orchestrate coups should not and cannot be trusted, and for the sake of the region, we should deny the request for citizenship.
United States of Kalukmangala
Former High Court Justice
For the record, appropriate officials means he can appeal to the Assembly.
Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System |
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