| Article 9 Expansion |
(07-17-2014, 06:51 PM)Unibot Wrote: I fear that Belschaft wants a full amnesty for everyone that was involved except Milograd, because Milograd was the only one involved who was a prominent defender. Meanwhile, many people who played a large role in the coup and expressed even more blatant disregard for our region like The Black Hawks (i.e., "let's fuck shit up") get off scot free simply because of their alignment. If Milograd is a "prominent defender" Uni, then ya'll might need to change your name.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
He's the (albeit wholly inactive) Arch-Chancellor of the FRA. Two year ago, he was the Chief Lieutenant of the UDL. So yes, prominent defender.
His actions were unacceptable for a defender - but he had disavowed defenderism at the time. He has since rose in prominence in defenderdom and his actions here in TSP have served as an excellent way for Belschaft to drive a wedge between TSP and the whole of defenderdom - similar to what he did with Sedgistan (note no "general amnesty" was given by any means immediately after the Sedgistan coup - because the political targets of these two coups were different). Is it right for everyone who pushed for the Milograd coup to get off without any consequences, because this wouldn't serve a political purpose for some of TSP's most staunch "independentists"? No. There are some clear cut cases here which we could use Article Nine against. Ironically, NPO received more criticism from the government of the day than TBH or TWP or TBR. Presumably, NPO's fading relations with imperialists inspired them to give NPO a hard time, while their chain of invader 'allies' were given a handful of "Get Out of Jail Free Cards". We've given "amnesty" to serial coupers and trolls like JAL, Mallorea and Riva or Jakker and ignoring the possibility of something like Article Nine to be used. If we're not going to use Article Nine here, I'm not sure there is any point to its existence at all.
Tsu - this discussion over the use of Article 9 is far from over, but we seem to have a consensus on the need for an amendment. I'm fine with Belschaft's proposed language for the amendment.
I motion this amendment to vote.
Second
I'll get this up for a vote as soon as possible.
But, I hardly think that an R/D debate is needed or appropriate here.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
I seem to remember TSP cutting relations with three regions deemed supportive of Milograd; TP, TWP and Gatesville. None of them are defender regions, so you're clearly talking utter nonsense.
As for groups like TBH, we have never had diplomatic relations with them so there was nothing to end, nor any expectation that they would help us. Raiders raid; were we meant to be surprised by them doing so? Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making
Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator ![[Image: B9ytUsy.png]](https://i.imgur.com/B9ytUsy.png)
Wait a second...
So if a defender org defends against TSP's invasions of X, Y or Z - this is an offense to TSP, according to you. But if an invader org invades TSP - this is just invaders being invaders??? How'll about I offer this logic instead: nobody gets a free ride for helping to coup our region, regardless of their alignment. If you're actually concerned about our regional interests and our regional security, you should be "alignment-blind" when it comes to direct threats to our region. We can afford to let bygones be bygones when it comes to defenders stopping our invasions of third-party regions or invaders opposing our defensive operations of third parties. But a threat to our own region is a threat, regardless of whether they are an invader, defender, imperialist or what-have-you, we need to take those threats and their actions seriously and certainly not as lightly as you've presented them here.
And noticed how I have motioned for exactly zero defender regions to receive Article 9 designation. Stop talking utter crap.
Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making
Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator |
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