Deputy Speaker: Order. Barons, Baronesses, Lords and Ladies. We begin our business for this session. We are discussing the need to be producing electricity using renewable energy by 2030. I call on Baroness Arce to begin.


Baroness Arce: Thank you, Lady Deputy Speaker. Currently, 10% of our electricity is coming from renewable sources. These sources are most notable from wind turbines. The country have not yet seen another way of incorporating renewables into our electricity supply. Both the Lower Chamber and Higher Chamber have been discussing this business the last twenty years and this is how far we have got. Lady Deputy Speaker, I don't see 2030 as a realistic deadline for this given our progress since 2000 to 2020.

Deputy Speaker: Baroness Sayre.

Baroness Sayre: Thank you, Lady Deputy Speaker. When I was Prime Minister of this country, electricity didn't exist. We made a transition from other forms of energy to electricity which was the next big thing. Lady Deputy Speaker, in the space of 15 to 20 years, we had almost completely finished the transition. I was not in Office during this time but I followed it. I don't agree with my right honourable and learnéd friend that 2030 is an unrealistic deadline. Seeing the way things are going in our world today, which is a radically-changed world to the 19th century country I led, I see it as very possible.It's also possible I won't live to see it but I can deal with that as long as my efforts are felt and do contribute to get us to that stage by 2030.

Deputy Speaker: Baroness Ward.

Baroness Ward: Thank you, Lady Deputy Speaker. I have to agree with Baroness Arce, Lady Deputy Speaker. Look at how we're doing now. She rightly said we have been making progress, or trying to make progress, on this issue since 2000. Lady Deputy Speaker, you know how much gets passed on to us from the Lower Chamber. I know from my time as Prime Minister, albeit short, that a lot of passionate debating takes place in the Lower Chamber and often this turns to anger. Lady Deputy Speaker, as time has progressed, these debates and annoyances have got worse, not better. Our current issue was actually passed to us directly by the President herself, as opposed to the Lower Chamber, precisely because of that reason. Lady Deputy Speaker, it takes the our two chambers so long to actually pass anything on. We are currently sitting at 10% after twenty years of trying to convert to taking our national electricity from renewable sources and leaving our non-renewable sources behind for emergencies, eventually leaving them behind altogether. In what universe can anyone logically think our current 10% of electricity taken from renewables will shoot up to 51% or more?

Deputy Speaker: Baron Watts.

Baron Watts: Thank you, Lady Deputy Speaker. I have to agree with Baroness Ward. We're sitting at 10% in 2020, in 2010, when I was Prime Minister, we were sitting at 10%. In the space of ten years, Lady Deputy Speaker, we have only gained 5% more electricity from renewables. I want to be the first to motion to extend the deadline to a more realistic deadline.

Deputy Speaker: Baroness Ward seemed to bring the speed of the Lower Chamber into question. I am unclear on whether that was resolved or not. Can we please try and resolve the relevance of mentioning the speed of the Lower Chamber before we move on? Baroness Ward.

Baroness Ward: Thank you, Lady Deputy Speaker. I meant in relation to the unresolved issues they debate which get passed on to us, they spend so much time debating and disagreeing before they pass on issues to us, if that proves necessary. At that speed, how do we expect to achieve our deadline of 2030 to convert completely or mostly to renewables for our electricity?

Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Baroness Ward, continuing with the debate at the point we had reached, Baron Washington.

Baron Washington: Thank you, Lady Deputy Speaker. I think with today's technology, the things we know today, the advancements we have made which lead us to the better understanding of energy in our society today, I think the conversion to this system is going to be much quicker.

Deputy Speaker: Baroness Nguyen. 

Baroness Nguyen: Thank you, Lady Deputy Speaker. I agree with Baron Washington. We are getting quicker in all areas of our knowledge as a nation, if we double or even triple in the next ten years, I think 2030 is well achievable.

Deputy Speaker: Baron Kelley.

Baron Kelley: Thank you, Lady Deputy Speaker. I refer to what Baroness Nguyen has just said, her argument doesn't make sense. Can I ask her, Lady Deputy Speaker, what 10% is doubled or tripled?

Deputy Speaker: Baroness Nguyen.

Baroness Nguyen: Thank you, Lady Deputy Speaker. To answer Baron Kelley, 10% doubled is 20%, 10% tripled is 30%.

Deputy Speaker: Baron Kelley.

Baron Kelley: Thank you, Lady Deputy Speaker. Baroness Nguyen has answered correctly. 30% is not 51% or over, hence, today's percentage doubling or tripling still won't be where we need to be by 2030. 

Deputy Speaker: Order. Baron Kelley makes a good point. I just want to briefly turn our attention to the Lower Chamber and the Government before we arrive at a decision.

Baroness Cox: Point of Order.

Deputy Speaker: Yes, of course, Point of Order, Baroness Cox.

Baroness Cox: Thank you, Lady Deputy Speaker. I thought, if there was still disagreement in the Higher Chamber, the issue was to be passed to the Courts.

Deputy Speaker: You are correct, Baroness, but this is not an appropriate issue to pass to the Courts. A decision is being made here on this issue, in this chamber today and if we have to stay longer to arrive at that decision, we will stay longer. If our Parliament ever ended up looking to the Courts to solve our renewable and non-renewable energy issues, we'd be in a very bad position indeed. Turning our attention to the Lower Chamber and the Government. I do think it would be possible for the Government, if this issue was at the forefront of their Party manifesto, to get us on track by 2030, that much is possible and I think we can all agree. I think our disagreements were fuelled according to this Government and now and previous Governments and so I want to turn to it for the moment. Bearing in mind the current Government are the new democratically-elected Government of 2020, elected in 2020, and being unsure of how long they will hold onto power for, I call on Baroness Larson for comment. Baroness Larson.

Baroness Larson: Thank you, Lady Deputy Speaker. The current Government were elected to Government on 3 June 2020. The Majority was held by the same Party as the previous Government, gaining two more seats, against all odds. We know the current Government will at least hold onto power until 2021, 2022 is expected at the moment but not confirmed, 2023 is currently in question. I understand that 2025 is supposed to be the goal for the current Government but each Government has always played it by ear and made good use of snap elections and I'm expecting a snap election before 2025, each Government has recognised the 5-yearly General Elections as a necessary mechanism for keeping the Government from becoming a dictatorship. All in all, Lady Deputy Speaker, we can't know how long the current Government will hold onto power for. Their manifesto is concerned with mainly only socialism. Electricity is there but their focus in relation to electricity is to restore it to public ownership along with other sources of energy. Lady Deputy Speaker, I don't see an increased focus on this issue until this Government leaves Office at the very least.

Deputy Speaker: Good points have been made and I think an extension to the deadline beyond 2030 is logical. How far beyond 2030 is logical? Baroness Love.

Baroness Love: Thank you, Lady Deputy Speaker. I think 2045 is a reasonable extension to the deadline. 

Deputy Speaker: Heading back to Baron Watts who motioned an extension. Baron Watts.

Baron Watts: Thank you, Lady Deputy Speaker. I think 2050 is more realistic for an extension.

Deputy Speaker: Baroness Howell.

Baroness Howell: Thank you, Lady Deputy Speaker. I do agree with Baron Watts' deadline of 2050, however, given we do not know when this Government will leave Office, I second 2045 and we can always change it if circumstances change.

Deputy Speaker: Baron Wade.

Baron Wade: Thank you, Lady Deputy Speaker. I third 2045.

Deputy Speaker: Order, as a third has been voiced, I am now obliged to bring the motion to a vote. All in favour of extending to 2045 say aye.

Majority: Aye.

Deputy Speaker: On the contrary, no.

Minority: No.

Deputy Speaker: I think the ayes have it, the ayes have it. Our new deadline for converting to extracting electricity from renewables lies in 2045. Order, order. I now also bring our Oral Discussion session to a conclusion. Oral Discussion One is held on Monday, topic to be confirmed by myself and the Lord Speaker over the weekend, see you Monday, order.