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+------ Thread: Decisions 2017 (/thread-4839.html)
RE: Decisions 2017 - Jay Coop - 05-05-2017
I bet Angela Merkel is next.
RE: Decisions 2017 - GI-Land - 05-05-2017
Don't you think, it will be more that Martin Schulz will get rigged, since he was at least until recently the hope, especially of the younger generation, to bring in something new into German politics?
Anyway, we will see.
RE: Decisions 2017 - Jay Coop - 05-05-2017
Ideologically, I am similar to Martin Schulz. We're both social democrats. However, I view Merkel with a great deal of respect. I think that she's the most powerful person in the Western world and has shown a great deal of integrity and respect for that amount of power. And, when it comes to the SDP in Germany, I feel disheartened by the fact that the last politician from that party who became Chancellor went on to become a Russian puppet. When it comes to foreign policy, I trust Angela Merkel because I know what to expect from her.
RE: Decisions 2017 - Zak6858 - 05-06-2017
Most powerful? Really?
RE: Decisions 2017 - Jay Coop - 05-06-2017
As of January 20, yes. Barack Obama used to be that person. In fact, he was the most powerful person in the world. Vladimir Putin calls the shots now and I believe that Angela Merkel is the last hope for liberal democracy. Donald Trump does not espouse liberal democratic values. When he undermines the credibility of the news media by calling them 'fake news,' when he undermines the judicial system by saying 'so-called judges,' when he implements a travel ban that is intended for people of a particular religion, when he accuses his predecessor of wiretapping his phones without evidence, Donald Trump cannot be part of the Western world. This is literally how Putin rose to power, by undermining the independence of the courts and news media. The only two leaders in the liberal democratic world that I trust today are Angela Merkel and Justin Trudeau. Emmanuel Macron would join them if he wins.
From Forbes (Most Powerful; I personally would switch 2 and 3):
[Image: G4Dlksu.png]
RE: Decisions 2017 - Zak6858 - 05-07-2017
Just because Trump stands against CERTAIN liberal views does not make him a less powerful leader. How do you think he became popular and the president. The western world is not black and white. Being liberal does not make your country western. That's bullshit.
If the liberals want to decide what makes a country or a person a certain label, they need to use facts. Just because a President does something against your certain opinion, and while everyone is entitled to their opinion, they can't be facts. Both sides of the spectrum need to provide facts to make vedrcisions like this. Look at Australa. No one cares that both our major parties are conservative and we are still against so many liberal things but we're still considered western.
RE: Decisions 2017 - Seraph - 05-07-2017
I'd say Zak's argument is more than fair here. Perhaps, Qvait, your statement should be revised as 'the most powerful liberal democratic politician in the world', rather than 'western'.
But, generally, I agree. There's a lot to respect about Merkel (although she's not without her issues- of course, who isn't?).
RE: Decisions 2017 - Sam111 - 05-07-2017
(05-07-2017, 03:18 AM)Zak6858 Wrote: No one cares that both our major parties are conservative
Since when is the Labor party even remotely conservative?
Quote:we are still against so many liberal things but we're still considered western.
Such as?
RE: Decisions 2017 - Zak6858 - 05-07-2017
(05-07-2017, 07:06 AM)Sam111 Wrote:(05-07-2017, 03:18 AM)Zak6858 Wrote: No one cares that both our major parties are conservative
Since when is the Labor party even remotely conservative?
Quote:we are still against so many liberal things but we're still considered western.
Such as?
Ok, poor wording. Labor isn't really conservative. BUT, you have to agree, some of their policies can be considered conservative, and that just corresponds with the voting population.
Some things we're against (possibly subjective):
- Gay marriage
- Until recently gay adoption
- Immigration
- Half of us don't want refugees and don't give a damn about the detention centres
- we're apparently disabled at fixing domestic violence (not really a political issue but still)
- Women's days and stuff like that are still laughed at
- Racism exists
- Aboriginal Australians are one of the worst off groups of people in the world, and that is not subjective
- Governemnts love big businesses
- We're building churches but stop mosques
- Climate change is apparently just a tiny little issue
- Apparenlty building lots of roads is better than public transport
- Apparenlry we have too many national parks (some people I've spoken to)
- One Nation
Etc etc
RE: Decisions 2017 - Jay Coop - 05-07-2017
I look at people like Donald Trump and Theresa May and I view them as weaker leaders than their predecessors. I don't think that being President of the United States matters anymore. He has turned the U.S.–Canada relationship on its heels. He did the same with Mexico. There are people out there who think that Mexico is an enemy. Our relationship with the members of NATO have been rocky ever since he called it 'obsolete.' Then, there was the incident with the Australian PM the other month. When it comes to international treaties, the Paris Agreement on climate change is only a signature away from being shredded to bits. NAFTA was about to be thrown out and still could be. TPP, which would have given us leverage over China, is dead. The Iran deal is on shaky ground.
By the way, when I say 'liberal democrat,' I mean the:
- Support of free and fair elections
- Support of separation of powers
- Support of the rule of law
- Support of human rights
There are many people on the left and right who qualify as liberal democrats—from Bernie Sanders to Mitt Romney. Donald Trump said he wouldn't accept the results of the election unless he won. Donald Trump thinks judges are illegitimate. Donald Trump tried the travel ban. Donald Trump has a strange admiration for strongmen around the world—from Erdoğan to Duterte. He's four out of four. Malcolm Turnbull may be a conservative, but from what I know about him, he is a liberal democrat.
Edit:
A reminder: Trump lost the popular vote and has a 40% approval rating.