(02-06-2017, 06:37 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: As the person who initially proposed the current setup, whether I stated it or not, the idea was to hopefully increase activity. (This was also the idea by asking TIL to move back to our forums from the secretive offsite forums that had been set up.) I wouldn't have proposed the current structure otherwise.

I'm also not accepting your cynicism here. Or even your unrepentant attitude, to be frank. I'm trying to keep this civil, but your candidate pulled out because he didn't like the way the parties were going along here. As such, I think you need to do some soul searching if you're happy being part of a "secretive cabal engaged in corrupt dealings" and think that should be an everyday occurrence in this region.

You didn't propose parties, Tsu. You were actively opposed to them, and then accepted that they're here to stay, so they might as well conduct business on the forums. APC formed in response to Hileville's coup, and TIL evolved out of the #LampshadeBar group of friends. Both have had to fight uphill battles to even exist, as there's been plenty of talk in the past about banning political parties, forcing registries, etc. I'm cynical because it's the same people lamenting parties as an affront to democracy that are the ones most hostile to people's right to associate.

And yes, I am fairly "unrepentant," because nobody in the APC or TIL has done anything wrong. TIL likes Vietnam, which is no surprise-- he's Roavin's protege. Roavin would likely have won APC's endorsement primary, as well. Mutual interests aren't "quid pro quo." It's a convenient fiction Belschaft has spread, but it's absolutely wrong. Neither party would ever agree to endorse somebody they don't like, in return for an endorsement of their own members.

I'm unrepentant because I see the underlying logic of the criticisms being lodged here. We're allowed to vote, sure, but only if we do it in the "right" way. Maybe you're allowed to talk about elections with friends, but be careful getting too official about it, otherwise you're "corrupt" and engaging in quid pro quo transactions. (Looks like friends privately egged on DM for a third term-- let's investigate that?)

What I know is that this is our regional history:

- Belschaft & Co planning to import voters from TEP and elsewhere to actually rig an election, for the purposes of abusing Cabinet authority to ban Unibot and myself

- A totally inactive player, Wolf, who's involvement in TSP was tangential at best, was thrusted into the electoral spotlight, where blocs of players engaged in plenty of strategizing, campaigns, and backroom dealing. Why? Because people personally didn't like me, so why not bring in somebody from the outside.

- A constitutional crisis caused by the aforementioned, and the near immediate return to inactivity by Wolf when he didn't win.

- An endless amount of uncontested elections, with incumbents who automatically win because individual players are too scared to run against them. Something parties help with, because we guarantee a base level of support!

Contrast that with what happened in this election:

- Two parties agree to endorse each other's candidates that they both like anyways, a day before nominations close

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By any metric, the introduction of parties have been a hugely stabilizing force in our elections and our entire politics. And yet, it seems every month the same people go through the same freakout motions, questioning the motives of party members, their character, their ethics, etc. It's ridiculous.

We can sit here and talk about whether we need more parties or not, but it's a fruitless debate. Are you guys really going to be okay with parties all of sudden just because another one is created?