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Political Parties: A Discussion
#59

If a majority of TSPers are in a party, it's just going to be more difficult for non-party people to get elected without a party endorsement. There's just no way around that. Not if we want to remain a real democracy.

A lot of this discussion is happening under the premise that the community is objectively better without parties. From where I stand, it's not. We're a community with serious and irreparable cleavages, stemming from coups, OBT, politicization of admins, etc., and the fact that there's never been and may never be any real retribution on any side for any of it.

So we have a powerful force driving people to join together-- deep distrust and dislike of another group that's numerous enough to gain political power. There's so much history to point to for why some people think there's an existential threat to others holding power.

Parties bring order to chaos. They turn friend groups into formal organizations that can recruit and provide new players with guidance and allies. When parties can strategize as cohesive blocs, it removes the high-stakes aspects of elections, making them less contentious and less prone to accusations of illegitimacy.

It's my opinion that TSP without parties would be substantially worse off. And I feel that I can say that with authority because, lets face it, a lot of the politics of TSP surrounds me and Belschaft and the people we surround ourselves with. TIL being able to strategize and, when necessary, ally with APC (or another party, in the future) gives me a real sense of security and makes me believe that elections are a bit less of a matter of whether or not I'm banned from TSP within the next 4 months.

But it's not just all that. TIL has increased the quality of our laws and the number of ideas floating around. Having members who weren't here for all the toxic history has done a lot of good, because they're given an equal voice and power in the power, which has led to compromises that never would have happened before. Parties can be like political incubators. While Bel decries TIL drafting laws ourselves and presenting them fully written to the Assembly, our in-house debates are more productive than Assembly debates. You can actually get work done when people don't hate each other! When new players get the opportunity to work with that, it improves all of TSP. And when you have a group that already supports your draft, you don't have to face the demoralizing prospect of it being utterly rejected out of hand, like what happens sometimes when individuals present laws in the Assembly alone.

We shouldn't be doing anything that has a chilling effect on political parties. If quid pro quo corruption actually happens, then yes let's discuss that. If actual election rigging happens, let's discuss it. But neither happened here, and neither happens just because parties account for a large portion of voters and ally in an election.


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Messages In This Thread
Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-06-2017, 05:45 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Omega - 02-06-2017, 06:01 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-06-2017, 06:04 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Omega - 02-06-2017, 06:05 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Escade - 02-06-2017, 06:15 PM
Political Parties: A Discussion - by sandaoguo - 02-06-2017, 06:23 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-06-2017, 06:37 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-06-2017, 10:34 PM
Political Parties: A Discussion - by sandaoguo - 02-06-2017, 06:38 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-06-2017, 06:49 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Omega - 02-06-2017, 06:40 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-06-2017, 06:45 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Omega - 02-06-2017, 06:48 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-06-2017, 06:50 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Omega - 02-06-2017, 06:53 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-06-2017, 06:55 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Escade - 02-06-2017, 06:58 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-06-2017, 07:04 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Spenty - 02-06-2017, 08:12 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Ryccia - 02-06-2017, 10:24 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-07-2017, 12:09 AM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Escade - 02-07-2017, 12:06 AM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Omega - 02-07-2017, 01:13 AM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Ausstan - 02-07-2017, 02:10 AM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Seraph - 02-07-2017, 02:27 AM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-07-2017, 11:13 AM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Ryccia - 02-07-2017, 03:08 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Ryccia - 02-07-2017, 03:26 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Ryccia - 02-07-2017, 03:45 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-07-2017, 04:34 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Zak6858 - 02-07-2017, 04:52 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Ryccia - 02-07-2017, 05:10 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Ausstan - 02-07-2017, 05:19 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Zak6858 - 02-07-2017, 05:20 PM
Political Parties: A Discussion - by sandaoguo - 02-08-2017, 09:07 AM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Ryccia - 02-08-2017, 10:04 AM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-08-2017, 10:32 AM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Omega - 02-08-2017, 11:45 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Escade - 02-08-2017, 07:20 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Omega - 02-09-2017, 12:50 AM
Political Parties: A Discussion - by sandaoguo - 02-09-2017, 07:27 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Escade - 02-09-2017, 07:35 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-09-2017, 10:42 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Escade - 02-09-2017, 11:33 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Omega - 02-10-2017, 12:39 AM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-10-2017, 10:48 AM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Escade - 02-10-2017, 05:56 PM
Political Parties: A Discussion - by sandaoguo - 02-12-2017, 03:40 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-12-2017, 11:57 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Omega - 02-13-2017, 12:09 AM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Omega - 02-12-2017, 11:04 PM
Political Parties: A Discussion - by sandaoguo - 02-13-2017, 06:54 AM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Cormac - 02-13-2017, 09:37 AM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-13-2017, 09:41 AM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Roavin - 02-13-2017, 10:23 AM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by QuietDad - 02-13-2017, 01:04 PM
Political Parties: A Discussion - by sandaoguo - 02-13-2017, 01:35 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Sygian - 02-13-2017, 01:41 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Ryccia - 02-13-2017, 02:11 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Cormac - 02-13-2017, 04:11 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Cormac - 02-13-2017, 04:46 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Tsunamy - 02-13-2017, 05:33 PM
Political Parties: A Discussion - by sandaoguo - 02-13-2017, 06:11 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Escade - 02-13-2017, 08:23 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Escade - 02-13-2017, 08:47 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Escade - 02-13-2017, 09:13 PM
RE: Political Parties: A Discussion - by Omega - 02-13-2017, 09:35 PM



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