Users browsing this thread:

God-Emperor · 11-18-2014, 07:32 PM

No, but I'm sure you're subjectively thinking it about me. If you'd like to bring up charges, be my guest, but Milograd did have charges brought against him. You may recall that he was guilty.

The Third Imperium
Journalist, South Pacific Independent News Network (SPINN)
Provost, Magisterium
Sergeant, East Pacific Sovereign Army
Journalist, East Pacific News Service
Foreign Affairs Minister, The West Pacific

TAC Saxton · 11-18-2014, 07:34 PM

And that's what worries me. Yes, he was found guilty and you were not charged with anything as of yet, but that does not mean you are any less of a risk. How can you judge him so easily while ignoring your own actions? Seems rather arrogant to me.

I am a Super Villain

(This post was last modified: 11-18-2014, 07:35 PM by Rasikal. Edit Reason: Spelling Error )

God-Emperor · 11-18-2014, 07:47 PM

I'm neither judging him nor ignoring my own actions. The Courts judged him. You also seem to have ignored the fact that I've stated multiple times that I'm unconcerned with the Parole Board's actual ruling. I'm more concerned with the process they used to reach it. As for myself, I voted for my own recall, and you're more than welcome to bring charges.

The Third Imperium
Journalist, South Pacific Independent News Network (SPINN)
Provost, Magisterium
Sergeant, East Pacific Sovereign Army
Journalist, East Pacific News Service
Foreign Affairs Minister, The West Pacific

TAC Saxton · 11-18-2014, 07:58 PM

Exactly what is it that you find so wrong about the parole process? Is it that no one else had a say on the matter or merely that you had no say in it?

So far, your only argument is "the past matters" and no one has said otherwise.

I am a Super Villain

(This post was last modified: 11-18-2014, 08:13 PM by Rasikal.)

southern bellz · 11-18-2014, 08:12 PM

(11-18-2014, 07:29 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote: It seems people keep forgetting this, so I'll say it: just because he has been a security threat, doesn't mean he remains one. He has no high influence nations in the region, does not even have citizenship and is among the most unelectable people we could have. How exactly is he a security threat?

I am curious why you keep bringing this up, because theoretically, Milo was no longer a direct threat the moment his endorsement count reset. Does that mean we should have let him back in the next day? I mean it's not a serious question, but I do not see why that is the determination of why someone should get parole.

It also is not important to me that he isn't a citizen, I am still going to have to interact with him again in TSP. I've done it before, I used to think he was a sincere, well meaning member of this region. I even gave him as much political backing as I could to help him get elected, and in return he couped the region and publicly mocked both me and other members of the region.

If he showed any remorse at his trial, I might even feel differently about this today. Instead, this was his defense:

Quote:I shall be very little heard of anybody here, I shall therefore speak a word unto you here.

Indeed I could hold my peace very well, if I did not think that holding my peace would make some men think that I did submit to the guilt as well as to the punishment. But I think it is my duty to God first and to my country for to clear myself both as an honest man and a good King, and a good Christian.I shall begin first with my innocence. In truth I think it not very needful for me to insist long upon this, for all the world knows that I never did begin a War with the two Houses of Parliament. And I call God to witness, to whom I must shortly make an account, that I never did intend for to encroach upon their privileges. They began upon me, it is the Militia they began upon, they confessed that the Militia was mine, but they thought it fit for to have it from me. And, to be short, if any body will look to the dates of Commissions, of their commissions and mine, and likewise to the Declarations, will see clearly that they began these unhappy troubles, not I. So that as the guilt of these enormous crimes that are laid against me I hope in God that God will clear me of it. I will not, I am in charity, God forbid that I should lay it upon the two Houses of Parliament. There is no necessity of either. I hope that they are free of this guilt, for I do believe that ill instruments between them and me has been the chief cause of all this bloodshed; so that by way of speaking, as I find myself clear of this, I hope and pray God that they may too; yet for all this, God forbid that I should be so ill a Christian as not to say that Gods Judgments are just upon me. Many times He does pay justice by an unjust sentence, that is ordinary. I will only say this, that an unjust sentence that I suffered to take effect, is punished now by an unjust sentence upon me. That is, so far as I have said, to show you that I am an innocent man.Now to show you that I am a good Christian; I hope there is a good man that will bear me witness that I have forgiven all the world, and even those in particular that have been the chief causers of my death. Who they are, God knows, I do not desire to know, God forgive them. But this is not all, my charity must go further. I wish that they may repent, for indeed they have committed a great sin in that particular. I pray God, with St. Stephen, that this be not laid to their charge. Nay, not only so, but that they may take the right way to the peace of the kingdom, for my charity commands me not only to forgive particular men, but my charity commands me to endeavor to the last gasp the peace of the kingdom. So, Sirs, I do wish with all my soul, and I do hope there is some here that will carry it further, that they may endeavor the peace of the kingdom. Now, sirs, I must show you both how you are out of the way and will put you in a way. First, you are out of the way, for certainly all the way you have ever had yet, as I could find by anything, is by way of conquest. Certainly this is an ill way, for Conquest, sirs, in my opinion, is never just, except that there be a good just cause, either for matter of wrong or just title. And then if you go beyond it, the first quarrel that you have to it, that makes it unjust at the end that was just at the first. But if it be only matter of conquest, there is a great robbery, as a pirate said to Alexander the Great, that he was the great robber, he was just a petty robber. And so, sirs, I do think the way that you are in, is much out of the way. Now, sirs, to put you in the way, believe it, you will never do right, nor God will never prosper you, until you give God his due, the King his due (that is, my successors) and the people their due. I am as much for them as any of you. You must give God his due by regulating rightly His church according to the Scripture, which is now out of order. For to set you in a way particularly, now I cannot, but only this. A national synod freely called, freely debating among themselves, must settle this, when that every opinion is freely and clearly heard.For the King, indeed I will not, Hurt not the Ax, that may hurt me. For the King the Laws of the land will clearly instruct you for that; therefore, because it concerns my own particular, I only give you a touch of it.For the people, and truly I desire their liberty and freedom as much as any body whomsoever. But I must tell you that their liberty and freedom consists in having of government. Those Laws by which their life and their goods may be most their own. It is not for having share in government, sirs. That is nothing pertaining to them. A subject and a sovereign are clean different things, and therefore until they do that, I mean, that you do put the people in that liberty as I say, certainly they will never enjoy themselves.Sirs, it was for this that now I am come here. If I would have given way to an arbitrary way, for to have all laws changed according to the power of the sword, I needed not to have come here. And therefore I tell you, and I pray God it be not laid to your charge, that I am the martyr of the people.In truth, sirs, I shall not hold you much longer, for I will only say thus to you. That in truth I could have desired some little time longer, because I would have put then that I have said in a little more order, and a little better digested than I have done. And, therefore, I hope that you will excuse me.I have delivered my conscience. I pray God, that you do take those courses that are best for the good of the kingdom and your own salvation.

Total nonsense.

If you guys want to talk about what he did after conviction, he then joined The Pacific and got appointed ambassador to TSP. Where he kept trying to demand access to the forum to continue his mockery of the government.

It seems like this decision hinges on the fact that he isn't a security threat and he kept playing NationStates elsewhere. I just can't help but feel that this parole system was a complete let down. Anyone can meet those criteria by just doing nothing. Our hard work, neutralized his security threat.

Even worse, the community is not part of the process, or even has a glimpse of what is going on in the process. I think it is incredibly sad that the ultimate result seems to be a decision that does not consider the impact on the community, and is more concerned about the rights of someone that blew his chance here, then gave the middle finger to his fair trial.

(This post was last modified: 11-18-2014, 08:25 PM by Lord Ravenclaw.)

TAC Saxton · 11-18-2014, 08:49 PM

From the looks of it, he never wanted to be found innocent. He just wanted to put on a show and go out with a bang. He clearly knew he could not sway the region to think he was anything but guilty, so why fight it?

southern bellz Wrote:is more concerned about the rights of someone that blew his chance here, then gave the middle finger to his fair trial.

Key word "rights"
Whether or not he was a douche at his own trial, he has certain rights that you simply can't ignore.

As far as his parole hearing not being public, if it were to be held publicly, it'd just turn into an episode of Law & Order. Too many people with grudges and stubborn opinions on the matter would turn the whole process into a zoo.

There is absolutely no evidence to support The Parole Board being more concerned over his rights, than the impact on the community.

southern bellz Wrote:It seems like this decision hinges on the fact that he isn't a security threat and he kept playing NationStates elsewhere.

That's a rather simplistic and convenient way to put it. You fail to mention his success as a leader and his overall actions as an individual outside TSP.

I am a Super Villain

Aramanchovia · 11-18-2014, 08:52 PM

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that the crime committed should definitely matter. If someone committed treason in real life, in a lot of countries they would be executed, most others, life in jail with no chance of release. And you probably know what happens to a lot of traitors in jail, I imagine it would be the same if they were in the general population. To grant parole and welcome someone back within a few years for the worst crime you can commit here is a joke, and will probably be seen that way by outsiders. Especially for someone who I have not seen provide any evidence of remorse for the crimes committed. Even if he did, his crimes are inexcusable if you ask me.

Yes, he will never be a security threat, but he will also never, ever be welcome here by myself, and probably many others after his actions. Ever.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe none of the parole board were active in the region both prior and during the coup - this may well have changed your opinion, as you may not understand the amount of betrayal of trust involved here. Yes, I understand you are following the criteria set out for you to follow, still doesn't mean it is the right decision to welcome someone back who many people would never want to see again.

For the good of the region, this was a terrible decision. It is as simple as that.

Apad · 11-18-2014, 09:24 PM

SB thank you so very much for at least shedding some light of the hearing.

Imo, Milograd was specifically in mind when the proposal was being drafted by the region. His name continuously came up and it is of no coincidence that he was promptly reinstated into TSP before, as the saying goes, the ink was dry on the legislation.

Apad
King of Haldilwe

(This post was last modified: 11-18-2014, 09:29 PM by Archerinia.)

**Belschaft** · 11-18-2014, 09:32 PM

I was one of those who drafted the legislation that created the parole board, and still think it is a sound idea. However, Milograd should not have been granted parole in this case - he was convicted of treason, and has served less than two years of banishment.

I'm wondering if there would be support for an Assembly resolution overruling this decision?

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

PREVIOUS ROLES

HEM · 11-18-2014, 09:38 PM

(11-18-2014, 09:32 PM)Belschaft Wrote: I was one of those who drafted the legislation that created the parole board, and still think it is a sound idea. However, Milograd should not have been granted parole in this case - he was convicted of treason, and has served less than two years of banishment.

I'm wondering if there would be support for an Assembly resolution overruling this decision?

[Image: 0799.png]