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~~Unibot~~ · 02-01-2015, 03:54 PM

This is essence, Belschaft's proposal, but without all of the hidden little nuggets he's tried to hide into the proposal (e.g., dual ministers). Please tell me if I've missed another one of those tricks - essentially his proposal needs to be debugged.

I've excluded some stuff:
- Dual ballots. You shouldn't be allowed to vote twice. That's undemocratic. One vote per one player.
- Dual Ministers. You shouldn't be allowed to staff an office with multiple ministers.
- IRV. Electoral reform is its own subject and it'll take time to come to the right decision on that - Belschaft was deliberately trying to pursue IRV before any other system could be evaluated.

I've kept the stuff about WA Delegate elections being in game.

Quote:Article 2: Bill of Rights

[...]
9. Voting and being elected to an office under the Coalition of The South Pacific shall be rights afforded only to citizens, and to Influential WA Nations when specifically designated.

I've only included clause nine here, so it's clear it doesn't contradict the amendment to the Bill of Rights that's already being pursued.

Quote:Article 3: Legislature

Section 1 - Assembly and Powers of the Assembly
1. The Assembly is comprised of all Citizens of The Coalition and all Influential WA Nations in the region The South Pacific.

[....]

12. Voting will be conducted via a dual ballot; a forum ballot consisting of all registered citizens and an in game ballot consisting of all Influential WA Nations conducted via a poll. The Delegate will conduct the in game ballot, and The Chair of the Assembly will certify the combined result of both ballots.
13. Citizens may not vote in both ballots.

Quote:Section 2 - Delegate Elections

1. The Delegate and Vice Delegate will run on a joint ticket.

2. The two tickets which receive the most votes will proceed to the second ballot, which will be held in game via a poll of all Influential WA Nations. Each ballot will last three days.

3. If there are two or less tickets nominated then the first ballot will be skipped and voting in the second proceed as normal.

(This post was last modified: 02-06-2015, 03:26 PM by Tsunamy.)

Aramanchovia · 02-01-2015, 06:11 PM

I don't have a major issue with dual voting to be fair. The other parts I wasn't a huge fan of.

Escade · 02-01-2015, 09:00 PM

Thank you, Unibot for cleaning it up.

I wonder if we can actually be more specific about this, "when specifically designated."

Then, regarding the dual ballot. We may have to think about citizenship and how it works. Correct me if I'm wrong but right now to become a citizen on the forums you only need to a nation in TSP (not a WA influential nation). It's possible that a WA influential nation would vote in the RMB polls and then with a non-WA nation have citizenship on the forums and vote here without being noticed.

I'm sorry to always be thinking about loopholes but recent history in TSP suggest that its important.

Escade

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**Belschaft** · 02-01-2015, 09:48 PM

The dual ballot issue was intentional on my part. I do not think it is wrong to allow people to vote in both franchises if eligible.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
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Hileville · 02-01-2015, 09:51 PM

I favor a return to having the WA nations of the region vote for the Delegate. I believe there are still fundamental issues with WA nations having voting rights in the Assembly. You cannot guarantee one vote per person in either your, Bel's, or any other proposal I have seen that gives WA nations a vote.

**Belschaft** · 02-01-2015, 09:55 PM

Which is why you might as well allow for people having two votes, one in each franchise, rather than having people acquire the two votes illegally.

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Escade · 02-01-2015, 10:01 PM

(02-01-2015, 09:51 PM)Hileville Wrote: I favor a return to having the WA nations of the region vote for the Delegate. I believe there are still fundamental issues with WA nations having voting rights in the Assembly. You cannot guarantee one vote per person in either your, Bel's, or any other proposal I have seen that gives WA nations a vote.

If we change to electing a delegate with WA nations, then perhaps because we are being more inclusive in that aspect then we can also change the forum citizenship and voting to requiring a WA nation? How do you think that would work?

Escade

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**Belschaft** · 02-01-2015, 10:08 PM

(02-01-2015, 10:01 PM)Escade Wrote:
(02-01-2015, 09:51 PM)Hileville Wrote: I favor a return to having the WA nations of the region vote for the Delegate. I believe there are still fundamental issues with WA nations having voting rights in the Assembly. You cannot guarantee one vote per person in either your, Bel's, or any other proposal I have seen that gives WA nations a vote.

If we change to electing a delegate with WA nations, then perhaps because we are being more inclusive in that aspect then we can also change the forum citizenship and voting to requiring a WA nation? How do you think that would work?

I'm all for that personally, but there is a significant group of players here who are in multiple regions and oppose any moves to limit such "cosmopolitanism".

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^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

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Hileville · 02-01-2015, 10:12 PM

(02-01-2015, 10:01 PM)Escade Wrote:
(02-01-2015, 09:51 PM)Hileville Wrote: I favor a return to having the WA nations of the region vote for the Delegate. I believe there are still fundamental issues with WA nations having voting rights in the Assembly. You cannot guarantee one vote per person in either your, Bel's, or any other proposal I have seen that gives WA nations a vote.

If we change to electing a delegate with WA nations, then perhaps because we are being more inclusive in that aspect then we can also change the forum citizenship and voting to requiring a WA nation? How do you think that would work?

I have never really been a fan of doing that as it isolates those who are involved in raider/defender GP. I don't think that is the answer that people are looking for even though it would seem to satisfy the desire to make the in game region more powerful as it would require you to have your WA be in TSP. A system as such could work in a GCR and I strongly believe that it will be tried sooner than later. I do not believe TSP will be the GCR to implement such a system.

Bel, legally giving people 2 votes isn't really a fix to the fundamental issue with what is being proposed as it would just be legalizing a gaping loophole. I would be inclined to favor allowing for 2 votes if we must move to this sort of setup.

Escade · 02-01-2015, 10:19 PM

Oh, I forgot about people who are part of two regions and also the army and the WA mobile. Is there a way to work around this so that people who are WA mobile have to file an application for citizenship that states their WA nation and the region its in and then the TSP nation? I mean that's done to a certain extent but this would require the forum-ers to actually check that the WA nation corresponded to the one mentioned. I don't know, I have to think it through.

Hmm...I don't think two votes is the best idea. For one, it means that it favors those willing to go across the site itself and the forums (which the whole point of this would be to bring balance or actually give the NS at least equal if not more power). That means that it would give double voice\power to those of us who are already entrenched. For example, I'm active on-site and on the forums (well returned) and that gives me more voice then someone else who is active on the RMB\site and is WA influential but isn't going to come here. It just seems very imbalanced.

Escade

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