| 2016 in America |
(11-11-2016, 12:04 PM)Punchwood Wrote: While that is a nice argument, the facts don’t add up. While Bernie did receive lots of support from while working class males, these people leaned to the left. Why would the average white working class male vote for someone who wants to increase the size of government hugely and at an incredible speed? Polls even found that most Americans would not vote for a socialist and that they would sooner vote for an atheist!!!! In 2020, the Millennials will truly be the largest generational voting bloc in the country. The Baby boomers are dying. The people who gave socialism a bad rep are dying. Today, when more people hear the word, "socialist", they associate the bad connotations that came with it because of the Cold War. People like Bernie don't use Soviet Russia or Venezuela, no offense to RandomGuy199, as examples. Instead, they look to other socialist countries like Denmark or Sweden. Denmark, a NATO ally. NATO was born in the Cold War in opposition to socialism and the Warsaw Pact. Today, NATO has member countries that are socialist. François Hollande, the President of France, is a member of the Socialist Party in France, also a member country of NATO. The CIA is a socialist institution. Anything that is part of the government is a socialist institution. When FDR created social security, the people of the time said it was socialist. "In times like this, people want a dull, boring centrist who gets things done even if they don’t change the country overnight." I don't see Hillary Clinton as the President-Elect. The Clinton Democrats have lost. They didn't show up on 8 November. Let's look at the numbers over the years:
Only the Clinton Democrats showed up, but they were outnumbered (edit: in the crucial states), because they thought that they could screw over Bernie Sanders in the primaries and not expect people to be outraged. When the final results come in, they will show that Trump got as many or fewer votes than Mitt Romney did in 2012. The difference will be that the Obama Coalition was broken in large part, by Clinton and the DNC. Clinton didn't even campaign in Wisconsin. As for Michigan, people should have seen it coming. In the primaries, she was expected to win the state. Instead, Bernie Sanders won the state in an upset victory and people wonder why Trump won that state. In hindsight, people should have seen this coming.
"One vote equals one vote!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNBnIq3Bgdg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15WhOT_lQiA These two videos explain it perfectly. America is not a left-wing country! New York and California may be left-wing states but America as a whole is not. America is either slightly right-wing or a centrist country depending on your view. Even here in the UK which is further to left than America, a proper left-wing party cannot win power. Labour under Jeremy Corbyn who shares the same views as Bernie Sanders is suffering from the lowest poll numbers they have ever in opposition, Labour would drop to somewhere around 190 MPs. During the 1980s where Labour was a left-wing party it suffered it's darkest days. Labour's most successful leader was a centrist! Tony Blair won because he was centrist, Labour was still more left-wing than the Torries but they did not alienate the majority of voters with strong left-wing ideas. If the UK can't elect a real left-wing party then how the hell can the US? I come from a left-wing region of UK, Scotland is by far the most liberal region of the UK. I enjoy being able to vote for a real left-wing party in regional elections, however I recognise the fact that the UK as a whole is not very left-wing. So come UK elections I support the centrist candidate because they can win elections. The West Coast and the NE need to understand that middle America is not left-wing, it is centrist leaning rightward. What may be electable where you come from, may not be somewhere else. Just as the idea of a tea-party candidate winning the Governorship of New York is laughable so is the idea of a socialist winning the Governorship of Arizona or North Carolina, two states that Dems will have to start to win. If Dems move further to the left they will be in an even worst position than they are in now. Obama is as far left as they can go and he destroyed the Dems on both a federal level and even more so on a state level. Europeian Ambassador to The South Pacific
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I absolutely disagree. It's a matter of turnout, and as John King pointed out, the Democratic vote was down. How is it down? Hillary Clinton. The name itself says everything. People weren't enthusiastic about Clinton. People were enthusiastic about Bernie Sanders. How did this election go down as it did? The Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act with Shelby County v. Holder in 2013, which led to states passing voter ID laws that are discriminatory against black voters because more of them do not have driver's licenses. Obama "destroyed the Dems"? In 2008 and 2012, the Dems gained seats in the Senate and House. The Dems lost the Congress because the party didn't show up for the midterms.
(11-11-2016, 05:05 PM)Qvait Wrote: Today, when more people hear the word, "socialist", they associate the bad connotations that came with it because of the Cold War. People like Bernie don't use Soviet Russia or Venezuela, no offense to RandomGuy199, as examples. Don't worry. Nobody should take us as an example anyway. Just look at us! We've been basing our entire economy on the fluctuating prices of a single resource for decades! And that's even before Chávez came along!
RandomGuy199
Representative of the Federal Republic of Karnetvor Resident Venezuelan/Lampshade Bar & Grill Manager- The South Pacific Soldier, South Pacific Special Forces "You're talkin' to the Rolex wearin', diamond ring wearin', kiss stealin', wheelin' n' dealin', limousine ridin', jet flyin', son of a gun, and I'm having a hard time keeping these alligators down!" "The Nature Boy" Ric Flair
Qvait you are just proving my point, you don't understand middle America you live in a very left-wing part of the country. Look at the map of state control, it's overwhelmingly red. For every young voter you may get how many independents do you lose? How many middle ground voters do you lose when you win one left-wing one. The left will always vote for the Dems, why piss about giving them control when you need the middle ground to win? If Dems want to risk giving the party up to the left then they can do so, but when President Trump is re-elected they should know that they allowed it to happen.
Europeian Ambassador to The South Pacific
Former Local Council Member Former Minister of Regional Affairs Former High Court Justice
I'm just here wondering about why you people want to abolish the electoral college.
"毎日の小さな努力の積み重ねが歴史を作っていくんだよ。"
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Treasure Island Awards Best Roleplay 2020 Treasure Island Awards Best Roleplayer 2020 Cocos Winner for Best Character Writer 2017 Cocos Winner for Best International Event 2017 Cocos Winner for Best Overall RP 2017 Things to know: Medical Intern and Biomedical Scientist from Indonesia, Muslim, 188 metres tall, loves trains (11-13-2016, 01:52 PM)Hammerstar Wrote: I'm just here wondering about why you people want to abolish the electoral college.There's a fair amount of debate about it, I believe, but it's fairly undemocratic. Founder of the Church of the South Pacific [Forum Thread] [Discord], a safe place to discuss spirituality for people of all faiths and none (currently looking for those interested in prayer and/or "home" groups);
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(11-13-2016, 02:54 PM)Seraph Wrote:(11-13-2016, 01:52 PM)Hammerstar Wrote: I'm just here wondering about why you people want to abolish the electoral college.There's a fair amount of debate about it, I believe, but it's fairly undemocratic. The debate is mostly because Clinton is on track to win the popular vote, while Trump won the election due to the electoral college. I agree with Seraph here, the popular<electoral vote thing happened in 2000 with Gore and Bush. Electoral college was created by the Founding Fathers to make sure nobody won and the House decided the president; things didn't work out that way, obviously. (11-13-2016, 12:40 PM)Punchwood Wrote: Qvait you are just proving my point, you don't understand middle America you live in a very left-wing part of the country. Look at the map of state control, it's overwhelmingly red. For every young voter you may get how many independents do you lose? How many middle ground voters do you lose when you win one left-wing one. The left will always vote for the Dems, why piss about giving them control when you need the middle ground to win? If Dems want to risk giving the party up to the left then they can do so, but when President Trump is re-elected they should know that they allowed it to happen. Clinton is center-right and Trump is far right. Far right won. You wanted the Democrats to be in the center, and the Democrats couldn't even win in the center. Where were those "middle ground" voters in this election? "If Dems want to risk giving the party up to the left then they can do so, but when President Trump is re-elected they should know that they allowed it to happen." In this election, the center was already handed the Democratic nomination and guess who's President-Elect. Edit: The Democrats already did it your way, and lost. |
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