| RE: Truth and Reconcilation |
(02-03-2016, 11:49 PM)Belschaft Wrote: It also means that instead of trying to reintegrate the community, and get everyone to sign up to a process of reform and democratic renewal, everyone on the other side of this thing is locked out of the process for six months; no voting rights, no participation in the great council, no part in the community. Residents can still discuss issues and plans of reform, Belschaft. Great Councils are always public.
That is a valid concern. But I have to think that the purpose of the Parole Board is to assess whether someone is truly a threat to the region anymore. If we have someone admitting to guilt but also showing a willingness to work towards reform, to make amends with the region, I think that would make a strong case for granting parole.
Now, I am not saying this is absolutely what we should do. I am simply saying this is an interesting proposal, and it might be workable. It does have the downside of making reintegration progressive rather than immediate. But it also has the upside of using our existing institutions for reconciliation. If anything, it's worth a thought. Edit: I've been assuming all this time that we are just taking about the Cabinet, and that regular citizens who supported the coup would be given a de facto amnesty. Is that how we all see this? Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System (02-03-2016, 11:47 PM)Unibot Wrote:(02-03-2016, 11:45 PM)Cormac Wrote: Unibot, do you have any idea how many people your parole idea would see stripped of citizenship for (at least) six months? That wouldn't be at all beneficial to TSP. It would leave the forum community -- particularly the Assembly -- a virtual ghost town. Can you explain why the Assembly shouldn't be more concerned with the massive reduction in activity and contributing citizens than it should be with your ideological crusade for "justice"? Most people seem to be wanting to move forward and reconcile, and build a better, more active TSP with a more positive atmosphere. This doesn't do anything to further that goal; it only detracts from it. It will leave wounds open for months, and few of the people you're planning to send into exile will return. This is not how TSP responded to its previous coup by Milograd, nor is this how TEP responded to the coup by Empire. A massive purge of citizens will do nothing to benefit TSP, it will only benefit your foreign agenda. We all know what that is, we all know that's why you're here, and it's ridiculous that these suggestions are even being entertained by anyone.
Can we please focus on the details of the proposal, instead of demonising the proposer? I know Unibot is highly unpopular. I really get it. But we can do better than that. Let's show everyone that we've learned from this past experience, about how to debate ideas.
Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System (02-03-2016, 11:53 PM)Cormac Wrote: This is not how TSP responded to its previous coup by Milograd, nor is this how TEP responded to the coup by Empire. A massive purge of citizens will do nothing to benefit TSP, it will only benefit your foreign agenda. We all know what that is, we all know that's why you're here, and it's ridiculous that these suggestions are even being entertained by anyone. TSP put Milograd on trial, Cormac - and Milograd served parole here. This would not be a "massive purge of citizens" - it's a handful of people (who approved the banishment of several other citizens here without hesitation, might I add) being subject to our existing correctional justice system; those affected would be allowed to serve as residents near immediately. Quote:Can we please focus on the details of the proposal, instead of demonising the proposer? I know Unibot is highly unpopular. I really get it. But we can do better than that. Let's show everyone that we've learned from this past experience, about how to debate ideas. Thanks Kringalia. You can bring up this counter proposal up to the Assembly if you like. I'm out for the night. *waves*
No, it bloody well isn't Kris. We're trying to reconcile and heal a community that has been seriously broken, and we've suddenly gone from an inclusive process of elections and legal reform with both sides participating to one side being convicted of treason and excluded from the process.
Unibot has somehow managed to derail what had been looking like, for all intents and purposes, a mutually acceptable solution that would allow TSP to start healing by coming in and proposing triumphalist purges. This idea should not even be considered, never mind contemplated. Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making
Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator ![[Image: B9ytUsy.png]](https://i.imgur.com/B9ytUsy.png) (02-03-2016, 11:59 PM)Belschaft Wrote: No, it bloody well isn't Kris. We're trying to reconcile and heal a community that has been seriously broken, and we've suddenly gone from an inclusive process of elections and legal reform with both sides participating to one side being convicted of treason and excluded from the process. Sorry but Bel, do you not agree that you're guilty of treason? (02-03-2016, 11:56 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote: Can we please focus on the details of the proposal, instead of demonising the proposer? I know Unibot is highly unpopular. I really get it. But we can do better than that. Let's show everyone that we've learned from this past experience, about how to debate ideas. Okay, let's focus on the details. The details will leave a large number of active, contributing citizens barred from citizenship for at least six months. Many will find other homes, have their last memory of TSP as toxic as it was before and during the coup, and never return. This proposal can only be detrimental to TSP and it detracts from the goal of community reconciliation and progress. The community can't move forward at all when half of it -- or more -- is barred from participating. This is not what TSP did after Milograd's coup, which saw thousands of nations ejected. We're going to be harsher on people for participating in this coup, which saw only four nations ejected? That doesn't make sense. That is retribution, not justice and certainly not reconciliation. (02-03-2016, 11:56 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote: Can we please focus on the details of the proposal, instead of demonising the proposer? I know Unibot is highly unpopular. I really get it. The details of this proposal seem pretty unpopular too. I wouldn't recommend that anyone who is offered it accept. It's flat out awful and a completely unfit punishment from someone who partook in what amounted to a coup of less than a week and resulted in a grand total of 4 players banned, all of which were allowed to return shortly thereafter. They will probably get a fairer deal before a Court than before this "Parole Board of Reconciliation".
I'm not a TSP citizen; it is legally impossible for me to be guilty of treason.
Even if that wasn't the case, the entire point of this process is community reconciliation. You're clearly not interested in that, but political advantage. Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making
Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator |
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