| TRR treaty |
Unibot approached me today about the possibility of a closer relationship, and eventually a treaty with TRR. We talked a lot about our relationship with TRR, and the main idea is that he thinks our FA is more mature now, which is why he approached us, but if we want a serious relationship with TRR then he expects us to be as much of an ally to them as we are to others. He also resents the fact that we often sign treaties with raiders or imperialists without much debate (example: Kantrias), but won't sign treaties, or view with suspicion any treaty, with defenders. I'm a bit hesitant in this case about a treaty, because of our alliance with TNI and the conflicts of interest it could cause us, but we should have an honest discussion about our overall relationship with TRR, and the extent to which our alliance with TNI should restrict our own foreign policy.
Unibot Wrote:This is based mostly on TNI-TSP, TNI-Euro and TRR-Lazarus's treaties. Unibot Wrote:Got thinking about it... Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System
Given that the provision involving the UIAF is non-negotiable, this treaty would require the Cabinet to come to a collective decision on our alliance with TNI. They will never end their war with TRR, and TRR will (reasonably) never commit to a treaty if we're beholden to the UIAF's perpetual war.
This is something we need to keep under wraps. Top secret. Punishable by death. Etc. If it gets out that we've even entertained the idea, long-time supporters of the TNI alliance will effectively kill any negotiations.
My personal opinion as Minister of Foreign Affairs is that the importance of the TNI alliance is overstated. We are not under threat from an outside attack. We haven't been for years. TNI helped when getting rid of Milograd, but Milograd came to power through democratic means and then went rogue. TNI cannot stop that and cannot deter that from happening again. It is a mistake to judge the alliance simply on that act alone, which is what the past few governments have done. It would be more prudent for us to build internal checks on rogue delegates, than to rely on a military organization that confines our foreign affairs.
TNI is not a partner in the alliance. Rather, it is the leader. They expect us to do as we will, within the lines that they've drawn. That much was made clear by the top-level discussions we had a few months ago. Furthermore, I have reason to be skeptical that TNI even believes in principle that protecting the legitimate delegate of TSP is the right thing to do. TNI and the UIAF as a whole pride themselves on realpolitik. They would drop the treaty in a heartbeat if it became more trouble than it's worth. I think we should go forward with negotiations with TRR, as if our alliance with TNI does not preclude a treaty. We should not let the UIAF dictate who our allies can be. Going forward with negotiations would be a political move, sending a signal to TNI that we are reclaiming our independence in foreign policy.
I would be ecstatic and TRR would make for a good friend. I have a couple of reservations, however.
1) Unibot is....Unibot. I had half a mind to register for TRR citizenship just to vote against Unibot in their delegate elections. I know I often take Unibot's side on a lot of issues here on the forum, but he is a very volatile individual. I believe he means well, but his temper knows no bounds. 2) This will surely mean the end of the TNI treaty. TNI has not done anything to merit tearing up the treaty we have with them. They have come to our aid in our time of need and that should not be forgotten. Having said all that, I think there are plenty of pros for a treaty with TRR. They will be strong allies who will most definitely come to our aid when we call for them, and probably have a better intelligence apparatus than we currently have. Also, they probably won't ask that we go raid regions. This is a telegram that I received from Christopher Bishop: Quote:Sorry for the late reply. A warzone would be fine, but there won't be much of challenge in holding it. More impressive would be holding a a larger target than a warzone, but I'll let the target selection up to you. I have no interest in occupying regions for the sake of occupying regions. We are not defenders, but I think our interests are more closely aligned with TRR than they are with TNI.
I think Unibot as delegate of a large GCR will be much different than Unibot as a private citizen. He will be unapologetic in promoting defenderism, though. I don't think that's a big deal.
Regarding "tearing up the treaty," I really think we need to have a honest assessment of our TNI relations. I think we need to stop approaching it from the position of "why would we abandon the treaty," and start asking, "why would sign the treaty?" TNI helped once, but so did a lot of other regions, including the UDL. TNI hasn't done anything with us since. They are unnecessary for regional protection, but they come with a lot of baggage. You say that a TRR treaty would come with a lot of benefits, Geomania. But the TNI treaty precludes it right off the bat. Even if TRR weren't requesting that we defend them against the UIAF attack, there would still be massive political issues just entertaining the idea of signing a treaty with TRR. All for what, exactly? Why is TNI so important? Why do they get to dictate terms like this? We keep avoiding those questions, because TNI has somehow become the Holy Grail of our diplomatic documents. TSP and TNI have not always been allies. We work with other regions far more often than we work with TNI. Our regional security is not dependent on TNI's support. We want allies that will protect us absent a treaty, anyways, like so many other regions did during Milograd's coup. We need to ask the question: Looking at what we know now about the consequences of the TNI alliance, would we sign the treaty today? That's the important question, here. What has TNI done for us to maintain the alliance?
I feel like it wasn't all that long ago we were having a discussion about how TSP continues to toss treaties aside as though they are meaningless. If that's true, I don't think bailing on the TNI is the best way forward.
I, too, have reservations with Unibot being delegate. I appreciate that he has a principled stance on things, but often time they come at the expensive of logic and practicality. Finally, as long as we aren't supporting TNI invading TRR or TRR invading TNI -- I don't see why we can't have both. It would just need to be clear that we're aiming to maintain the status quo. Edit: At least, these are my two cents. I'm not intricately involved with anyone around this ... but from my outside perspective ...
I don't propose we invalidate the TNI treaty, though legally we are able to do so with 5 days notice. I think we should be able to have treaties with both TNI and TRR. It's TNI that will have objections to that, though, especially if we agree to defend TRR against a UIAF attack.
While we're allied with TNI, we will always be constrained by what they want. That's my problem with the alliance. We get nothing out of it, but there are a ton of costs. People brush it off as, "Of course we're going to be limited by our treaties. We can't act contrary to the interests of an ally." But I think we rushed into the TNI treaty during a moment of euphoria, following the downfall of Milograd, and didn't actually consider the very real diplomatic costs of putting TNI on a high pedestal in this region. (Edit: For the record, got my timeline mixed up there.) If we were considering signing the treaty today, knowing full well it would meaning signing over to TNI control over which defender groups we work with, would we sign it? I certainly wouldn't support that. TNI likes declaring perpetual wars for dumb reasons. The UIAF will always be at war with the entirety of defenderdom. They are a costly ally. So why do we keep putting this alliance above everything else?
I have some things to say about this:
1. The FRA-UIAF war is stupid. There, I said it. It's ridiculous because it's symbolic, and because it unnecessarily restricts our ability to make new alliances, without any substantial benefit in return. In fact, I'd say that at times defenders seem way more interested in being frieds with us than TNI itself, and that's because TNI takes our alliance for granted. 2. This reminds me, so far the only TNI person that has actually (1) approached me instead of us approaching them and (2) to talk about something that isn't why we shouldn't deal with defenders is Sir Pitt, who had some interesting ideas about cultural cooperation. Either they don't value our alliance that much, or have a lously way of showing it. 3. The way I see it, TNI has no right to invade The Rejected Realms, even as part of their ridiculous war. If they did, that should show (yet again) blatant disregard for GCR sovereignty, and therefore I feel it would be natural to position ourselves in defence of that principle. TNI attacking TRR itself is unacceptable to me. TNI fighting against TRR elswhere, I don't mind. Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System
I'll just say that we probably will need to talk to TNI at some point. I'm not averse to a TRR treaty but Unibot is an interesting individual who is likely to lash out. I mean think of his reaction last term.
Escade ~ Positions Held in TSP ~ Delegate | Vice Delegate Minister of Regional Affairs, | Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister of Military Affairs ~ The Sparkly One ~ My Pinterest
It's important to remember that we're not negotiating a treaty with Unibot. We are negotiating a treaty with The Rejected Realms.
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