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***Kris Kringle*** · 03-04-2016, 02:51 AM

I will finish my participation here, as I should have several posts ago, by saying it is a very serious mistake for this Assembly to act like nothing happened with people like SJS Republic and Imkitopia, when they have not had the decency to explain themselves to the region. This was a coup, and its gravity is not measured by how many nations were ejected or how long it lasted. They attempted to overthrow the government. They ejected nations. Serious enough.

We do no service to our democracy and institutionality when we treat coupers like nothing happened, because something did happen. They breached the trust of an entire region. Nobody in the Cabinet was stupid to not understand the full implications of their actions. They knew what they were doing and decided to go through with it anyway. But even then, we extended an olive branch in the form of a conditional amnesty. They would not be prosecuted if they admitted to their role in the coup, and even that they have not done.

We need to be honest here. Reconciliation is not ignoring the seriousness of a coup and acting like we can all get along in the future. That insults the actions of those who fought the coup and ignores the plight of those who did get ejected. Reconciliation means coming to terms with what happened and addressing its causes, without legitimising the actions taken by the offenders.

Trying to dissolve the government and eject political opponents is not a legitimate tactic, it's not the sign of a political crisis. It is a coup, plain and simple. It is perfectly valid to discuss what caused the coup and how we can avoid making those mistakes in the future. It is not valid by any stretch of imagination to act like this was not a coup, or treat unrepentant participants as if they did nothing wrong.

Reconciliation works both ways. If we are willing to recognise that we made mistakes as a region and as institutions, they too must be willing to recognise they made mistake. Letting them walk free without demanding that means we lower the cost of putting our democracy at risk. There is not disincentive to couping at the personal level, because you can be forgiven if enough people like you. There is no disincentive to couping at the institutional level, because we rate the seriousness of coups based on how many, of which, nations were ejected.

Couping is serious business, much different from any other crime, and should be treated accordingly. Being so lenient towards someone who has not expressed remorse for couping is not good. I don't really believe that SJS Republic will abuse his border control power the moment he gets it back, but that doesn't meant he should get it back either. This sets the precedent that couping is no big deal, that you can politicise your way out of any repercussions. We have already lowered the requirement down from parole from a treason ban to simply asking an acknowledgement of culpability. That is a huge compromise on our part. Is it not time they did their part too?

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Zak6858 · 03-04-2016, 03:39 AM

I don't actually think Sam had banjected anyone from the region, that was Hile and Imki. The only thing I really saw Sam do was nothing. He didn't really do anything that did bad to the region. He may have supported the TG's point of view, but that was it. It was sort of like Awe. We didn't do anything because he didn't do anything, so I don't see the issue with Sam.

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~~Wolf~~ · 03-04-2016, 03:51 AM

(03-04-2016, 03:39 AM)Zak6858 Wrote: I don't actually think Sam had banjected anyone from the region, that was Hile and Imki.

Full disclosure, Sam did actually ban one person.

It was Kris.

**Belschaft** · 03-04-2016, 10:12 AM

Equally full disclosure; who ejected who was determined by influence levels, and had I had more influence on my nation at the time it could have been me ejecting Kris.

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***Tsunamy*** · 03-04-2016, 10:15 AM

For the record, we had a CSS well before we had regional control powers. Being on the CSS also involves the power to declare states of emergency, vote on the endorsement cap and have more endorsements than 120.

In all reality, there's a legitimate dispute over if CSS members can actually *use* their powers, despite that they can have them.

I'd like to consult with the Cabinet before restoring Sam's powers. While I — like Kris — doubt Sam is going to start banjecting people, I'd like to see some other input before making a final decision here.

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***Tsunamy*** · 03-04-2016, 10:15 AM

(03-04-2016, 10:12 AM)Belschaft Wrote: Equally full disclosure; who ejected who was determined by influence levels, and had I had more influence on my nation at the time it could have been me ejecting Kris.

... you didn't have Border Control Powers?

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ProfessorHenn · 03-04-2016, 10:20 AM

(03-04-2016, 10:12 AM)Belschaft Wrote: Equally full disclosure; who ejected who was determined by influence levels, and had I had more influence on my nation at the time it could have been me ejecting Kris.

You would have knowingly ejected a member of the CSS without due process because you don't like him?

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ProfessorHenn · 03-04-2016, 10:22 AM

(03-04-2016, 10:15 AM)Tsunamy Wrote:
(03-04-2016, 10:12 AM)Belschaft Wrote: Equally full disclosure; who ejected who was determined by influence levels, and had I had more influence on my nation at the time it could have been me ejecting Kris.

... you didn't have Border Control Powers?

He had control of Hile's nation.

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~~Wolf~~ · 03-04-2016, 11:52 AM

(03-04-2016, 10:15 AM)Tsunamy Wrote:
(03-04-2016, 10:12 AM)Belschaft Wrote: Equally full disclosure; who ejected who was determined by influence levels, and had I had more influence on my nation at the time it could have been me ejecting Kris.

... you didn't have Border Control Powers?

I think Hileville would have made Bel's nation an officer in order to do so, is what Bel's implying.

Pre-Hileville handing off control of his nation to Bel, of course.

Punchwood · 03-04-2016, 01:12 PM

(03-04-2016, 03:39 AM)Zak6858 Wrote: I don't actually think Sam had banjected anyone from the region, that was Hile and Imki. The only thing I really saw Sam do was nothing. He didn't really do anything that did bad to the region. He may have supported the TG's point of view, but that was it. It was sort of like Awe. We didn't do anything because he didn't do anything, so I don't see the issue with Sam.

He ejected a member of the region unlawfully and support the coup as a CSS member and a Cabinet member he has done plenty wrong.

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