I wish people would stop throwing around the phrase "home-rule" like it actually means something. It's a meaningless buzz-word, and has no relation to the actual powers and responsibilities of the Local Council. Let's look at what the Charter actually says;

1. The Local Council will be a body of three residents of The South Pacific elected by the region as a whole every four months, who will represent the interests of all players in the region, moderate the Regional Message Board, and encourage activity on the game-side.

2. The content of the World Factbook Entry and Dispatches will be managed by the Local Council, in cooperation with the Delegate, and must contain at least a link to the Official Regional Forums and a notice to endorse members of the Council on Regional Security.

3. The Local Council will have the authority to run regional polls, create and pin Dispatches, and to suppress messages on the Regional Message Board according to a standard moderation policy. It may not alter the regional flag or tags, and may not send out mass telegrams, without the approval of the Delegate.

4. The Local Council is responsible for sending a representative to the Assembly, whose term must not exceed the Local Council’s. The method of selection will be decided by the Local Council, along with how the representative casts their votes in the Assembly.

You'll note two uses of the word moderate/moderation, and two uses of the word represent/representative. In terms of actual powers; the Local Council manages the WFE and pinned dispatches along with the Delegate; the Local Council runs regional polls; the local council moderates the RMB; the Local Council sends a representative to the Assembly.

That is the summary of what the Local Council does; it moderates the RMB, helps administer/manage the WFE and dispatches, and represents in game nations (I use the formulation regional WA members, as that's the only way to ID someone as a unique player). Nothing else. It's not a governing body, or a lawmaking body, or a judicial body. The LC Assembly Rep is barely even a legislative role, as it's duty is to cast the regional block vote - that's a political duty, not an administrative one.

Local Councillors are moderators and representatives. That's what we're empowered to be. Glen can keep saying "home-rule" as many times as he likes, but the LC does not represent such a thing. Now, the Assembly could grant the LC more powers and move towards "home-rule" being something other than a buzzword, but that would be a mistake - creating two competing governments for TSP would be absurd, and lead to inevitable conflict between the two. TSP doesn't need "home-rule" - it already has it, in the form of this Assembly. What TSP needs is better integration of regional WA members into the government it already has.

Regional WA members do not want complete control of their own, separate, powerless little pretend government. They want a larger say and a larger stake in the government TSP already has.

Now, can we stop pretending that the LC is something it isn't, acknowledge that it's a group of political representatives with moderation duties in the region, and treat it as such?

To get this all back on track — it's clear you're being pedantic and selective in what you're citing.

For example, I call attention to Section IV, Article 7:

7. The Local Council representative will have a weighted vote of 20% of all non-abstaining votes cast on bills. The Chair will calculate how many votes are allotted to the representative at the close of each vote, and then add the representative’s total votes to the final tally.

Now, if the LC can choose a representative as they like — and that representative can vote however s/he likes — allowing that representative OR anyone from the LC to be CoA is a huge concentration of power, since the LC could (in theory) dictate how the representative is to vote. So, someone in you position could theoretically decided on what should b brought to a vote and command 20% percent of the vote (plus your personal Assembly vote); this is a huge problem.

(As an aside, I have no interest debating the merits or definition of home rule; nor will I get sucked into such side arguments.)

Frankly — Bel, if you're genuine in wanting to expand the WA-nations power, I imagine running for the CoA and pushing an agenda for more gameside power would be more productive than attempting to exploit a loophole in the law that concentrates power in your hands and looks bad for all involved.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

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I think that criticism would be a valid one Tsu, if the LC had decided that the LC Assembly Representative could cast the block vote however they like. Seeing as it's cast according to the wishes of regional WA members, the reality is that there isn't such a concentration of power.

Besides, I am running for CoA and pushing an agenda for more gameside power....

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

---

PREVIOUS ROLES

Former Delegate (x2.5)
Former Member of the Committee for State Security
Former Chief Justice of The High Court (x3)
Former Minister of Foreign Affairs (x2)
Former Chair of the Assembly (x3)
Former Minister of Security (x2)
Former Local Councillor (x2.5)
Former Forum Administrator
Former Minister of Media

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I think that criticism would be a valid one Tsu, if the LC had decided that the LC Assembly Representative could cast the block vote however they like. Seeing as it's cast according to the wishes of regional WA members, the reality is that there isn't such a concentration of power.

If that was legally true then yes, it might be fine. But that is not the case in our laws. The current Local Council, at the moment says this is the case but our laws are more open. The current or a future Local Concil could change this policy at any moment and even now the policy is not absolute (if I recall you admitted making a 100% Aye bloc vote for what you called a minor fix). We can't base our laws on half a term of precedent.

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Worth noting again that the mechanism by which Belschaft determined the LC block vote should reflect an in-game poll is the exact same mechanism by which the LC can establish its own local government and unique community.


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Bel, you're falling into the same logic problems we had with the Communications Act. It's not what you would/can do personally, it's how this can work in the future.

As Far pointed out, that's how the LC decided to act in this instance. That could easily change — either with a new LC or really at the whim of the LC. I don't believe there is anything saying that has to be stagnant once determined.

To draw this comparison out further, by this point in my experience with TSP, I hope the region knows that I follow the law as best I can and act only within what is fair and consistent — even if it kills my legislative agenda. And, as such, I would hope the region would trust me to act unilaterally knowing that I'm not going to suddenly start banjecting people and/or acting in a way contrary to democracy in TSP.

Still, I'm not going to ask the region to give the delegate those powers because I realize that as much as I'd be a benevolent dictator, the region could just as easily get a Milo in the future and power would already be concentrated in their hands.

Round about metaphor, but this is less about this particular instance and more about what our government, could and should look like it in the future.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

(This post was last modified: 09-04-2016, 07:23 PM by Tsunamy.)

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once again the leading Hobo's are cementing their hold on the seats of power. no surprise.

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Seeing as this conversation has gone way off topic, and we have a motion and a second, I petition that we bring this to vote. (5 days of debate has either already ended or is very close to ending, im not sure )

-Griffindor/Ebonhand
-Current Roles/Positions
-Legislator 2/24/20-
-High Court Justice 6/7/20-
-South Pacific Coral Guard 11/17/20-
-Minister of Engagement 6/17/22-

-Past Roles/Positions
-Legislator 7/3/16-4/10/18
-Secretary of State 4/3/20-2/24/21
-Chair of the APC 9/24/16-5/31/17
-Vice-Chair of the APC 6/1/17-4/10/18
-Local Council Member 7/1/17-11/17/17
-Citizen 5/2012-12/2014 and  2/26/16-7/3/2016

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I move the following to a vote:

1.3 is amended to read:

1. Electoral Commission
(3) No member of the Election Commission may run for office or hold the office of Delegate, Prime Minister, Chair of the Assembly or Cabinet Minister, during their tenure on the commission.
a. This does not prohibit a member resigning to seek office via an election or finding an accepted surrogate to oversee the election in their place.

The Local Council is renumbered as 5. Vacancies is renumbered as 6. Separation of Powers is added as 7. A clause regarding Constitutional law is added as 8.

7. Separation of Powers
(1) It is not permitted for one person to serve as Delegate, Prime Minister, Chair of the Assembly, Permanent Justice, Local Council Member, or Cabinet Minister (as Defined by Article VI of the Charter) while occupying any other role in this clause, including any combination of said roles at the same time.
(2) It is permitted to seek election to Delegate, Prime Minister, Chair of the Assembly or Cabinet Minister while occupying an existing role mentioned above.
a. However, should the candidate successfully seek office then they must resign from their prior office before being allowed to assume responsibility for their newly elected office.
b. If they have not assumed the office within 3 days of the election results/confirmation vote, then they are considered to have forfeited the office and a special election should be called.
c. Where necessary, an announcement of resignation from their prior office will constitute a candidate assuming the office they have been duly elected to/confirmed for.
(3) Members of the Committee for Regional Security are permitted to occupy other roles so long as they do not violate the restriction in 7.1.
(4) Unless otherwise stated, Article 7 is considered to apply to all explicitly named elected and confirmed offices as detailed in this 7.1.

8. Constitutional Law
(1) The Election Act is a constitutional law, and further amendments to it must meet constitutional amendment requirements.

I left out the part on CoA elections as that should be addressed after the CoA election.

Above all else, I hope to be a decent person.
Has Been
What's Next?

 

CoA: August 2016-January 2017
Minister of Foreign Affairs: October 2019-June 2020, October 2020- February 2021

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once again the leading Hobo's are cementing their hold on the seats of power. no surprise.

Wait Charles — Please explain how "the leading hobos are cementing their hold on the seats of power" but you have no problem letting Belschaft hold multiple elected position?

I'll wait for a response because this is going to be good.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

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why should I bother when you just want to entertain yourself?

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